Posted on 10/25/2016 1:20:30 PM PDT by C19fan
A Canadian man is suing Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) to have “God” removed from its famous Twelve Step program, alleging discrimination against atheists, agnostics, and freethinkers. First published in 1939, the “Twelve Steps” of Alcoholics Anonymous have a significant spiritual component, and six of the twelve make direct reference to God or a “higher power.” Those following the program must acknowledge their powerlessness over alcohol and their dependence upon God to restore them to health.
(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...
Problem is since they are that, they arent anonymous, you kinda know who is one.
I’m gonna owe an amend for this, but I’d buy this man a bottle of the finest scotch.
The bastard forgot the entire thing about “powerless over other people, places, and things.”
Real Atheists just laugh at any and all religions unless and until required to behave according to the dictates of any of them. To a genuine Atheist there is no difference between belief systems, only in the level of coercion.
Bump for later.
Pretty much lol...I don’t believe that any real healing from addiction comes from outside of a surrender to a Higher Power. I’m speaking from my own experience of course, and can’t speak for others.
That said, if it weren’t for the power of the God of Abraham,Issac and Jacob I’d be lost in my sickness....others milage may vary.
A good number of AA meetings are in churches. I suppose ghe lawsuit seeks to move the meetings to the nearest Wholefoods.
Good bye, recovery!!
To a genuine atheist all belief systems are subjective and arbitrary, if they really are atheists.
“A real atheist would NOT fret about our Creator. But a Satanist certainly would.
You have a very interesting point there.
If you are alcoholic, you don’t have the power to stop. That has to come from a power greater than you.
AA does not exist as a legal entity. It cannot be sued.
Some people, though, have the physical craving, and a mental obsession about drinking. That obsession usually means that the alcoholic is under the impression that a drink will make them feel better. And, sometimes the case. But more often than not, the feeling of drunkenness masks the reason the alcoholic feels bad. Then, ironically, the state of drunkenness will often lead the alcoholic to do things or say things which will later make them feel even worse once they sober up.
In this regard, the morality and character of an alcoholic may deteriorate, until things that were once part of their core values have been eroded, resulting in further feelings of shame and remorse, which are removed temporarily by, you guessed it, more alcohol. That is the vicious cycle that some alcoholics find themselves in.
In those cases, the alcoholic's value system must be rebuilt, and removing the physical craving just does a small part of the recovery process.
The steps of AA are specifically designed to bring about a spiritual awakening that rebuilds the value system; restoring honesty, patience, tolerance, kindness, humility and love.
Without a higher power, or spiritual belief, those core values will not be restored. As a result, working a program where spirituality has been removed will not likely change the moral character of the person who adopts it.
And I think that is really what is behind the effort of the atheist in Canada; he simply wants to hang on to his old ideas.
Amen Laz...outside of a Ultimate Moral Authority we addicts are screwed. We have to submit to a Master...and draw strength from the same, no matter what we call it.
For a group that does not believe in God, he sure causes them to foam at the mouth!
Wonder if Kronos or Poseidon makes them do the same!
One Atheist friend said to another friend “I don’t believe in 4200 Gods, You don’t believe in 4199”.
As an atheist/agnostic, I’d like to welcome this attention whore to start his own group and stop trying to force his religious beliefs on others.
I think this guy has a major point.
World Services, Inc., through the Toronto Intergroup, delisted Beyond Belief and We Agnostics - meetings that were for atheists. Attendees at those meetings were driven to those meetings, it is alleged, by “the exclusionary and fundamentalist behavior of some of its members who force their religious beliefs on others.”
Tradition 10 states, “Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy.” Yet here, WSO expressed an opinion by delisting.
There is also the Tradition 3 old saw, “The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking,” which will give WSO a problem.
You don’t need to affirm a belief in God, or drive out those who won’t please you after telling them they have to. Thumping like this is a violation of Tradition 1, “Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon A.A. unity.” Tradition 1 is the fist tradition for a reason. So the real problem is policing thumpery, which can’t be done. All you can do is go to meetings that thumpers don’t attend.
WSO lists meetings only that use approved literature - you can’t rewrite the steps. Fair enough. However, Tradition 4 states, “Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole.”
So the question is does listing Beyond Belief and We Agnostics through intergroup “affect other groups or AA as a whole.” Probably yes, because a newcomer seeking an AA experience should be exposed only to approved literature. A bait an switch on the language of the steps could prevent a return trip to a meeting. This can affect AA as a whole.
Simple solution is Beyond Belief and We Agnostics post the unadulterated 12 steps at their meetings, then, if group conscience allows it, have the leader tell the attendees that, “This meeting does not follow the steps to the letter, like other meetings where members make suggestions about God as a higher power.” After all, the steps are only suggestions - “Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program of recovery.”
F these people. Bunch of snotty, superioristic b@st@rds!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.