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FBI goes back to 9mm with Glock
guns.com ^ | June 30, 2016 | Daniel Terrill

Posted on 06/30/2016 3:44:49 PM PDT by PROCON

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To: PROCON
For those who haven't, you really ought to check out the FBI report that led to the change back to 9mm. The FBI did a decade long study on effectiveness of different semi-auto handguns in the field based on agent and medical accounts of hundreds of shootouts in the field, range training and lots of other stuff. It came out around Jan. or Feb. of 2015. You can find it on the net and I found a great two part youtube video where a guy summarizes it and displays the most relevant charts, graphs and conclusions.

The results are going to outrage a bunch of .45 ACP devotees but, here, essentially, is what the FBI believes the evidence shows and the conclusions they came to:

1. There is no such thing as greater stopping power with regard to standard law enforcement handgun rounds. A 9mm has as much stopping power as a .45 - A bad guy can keep coming after being hit with either if you don't hit him in the head or spinal column. Many incidences of perps being hit in the heart and continuing to shoot until they bled out. A trained physician can not tell any difference between the wound channels created by 9mm, .40 or .45 cal.

2. The BEST marksmen in the force miss about 75% to 80% of their shots in an active shootout.

3. Therefore, the most important characteristic of a duty handgun is the ability to place quick, accurate follow-up shots.

4. Agents at the range were shown to be able to place quicker, more accurate, follow up shots with a 9mm, most likely due to recoil. This applied across the board from the baddest marksmen to the average joes at the range.

101 posted on 06/30/2016 7:39:32 PM PDT by circlecity
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To: dangerdoc

When I walk around the woods here in rural NW Florida I always stick a small but high quality .22 LR automatic in my pocket.

It does not hit hard but it hits hard enough for most things I might run across and in a pinch will do for feral dogs.

I probably should at least carry one of my Browning Hi-Powers but they require a holster and are much heavier.


102 posted on 06/30/2016 7:40:02 PM PDT by yarddog (Romans 8:38-39, For I am persuaded.)
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To: yarddog

good on you and her... tell the truth and shoot straight


103 posted on 06/30/2016 7:40:36 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -w- NO Pity for the LAZY - Luke, 22:36)
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To: yarddog

OMG, why did you allow your daughter to even hold one of those black, scary looking, “fully automatic”, weapons of war, assault rifles?!


104 posted on 06/30/2016 7:40:53 PM PDT by PROCON (Americans First or Terrorists First - Choose in November)
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To: Chode

She is now the Mother of Two half grown kids and has lost her interest in guns. Now her husband and my grandson may be easier to train. The only trouble is they live in Oklahoma and I do not get to see them except maybe every couple of years and that is usually at the beach where they rent a condo.


105 posted on 06/30/2016 7:45:04 PM PDT by yarddog (Romans 8:38-39, For I am persuaded.)
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To: circlecity
2. The BEST marksmen in the force miss about 75% to 80% of their shots in an active shootout.

And that's because you can't train with adrenaline, it only comes when true fear is coursing through you.

Interesting info, do you have a link?

106 posted on 06/30/2016 7:48:26 PM PDT by PROCON (Americans First or Terrorists First - Choose in November)
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To: yarddog

I live in the Rockies, my concern is mountain lions and bears, both frequent my neighborhood. I’ve had neighbors yell out their window as I walked by to let me know there was a bear in the area as recently at the last week or two.


107 posted on 06/30/2016 7:56:43 PM PDT by dangerdoc ((this space for rent))
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To: dangerdoc

We actually have panthers (same as mountain lions) and bears plus alligators and wild hogs and feral dogs.

Still You do not see them as often around here. In a pinch I could get by with the little Walther PP Sport with a spare mag. That is 21 shots total.


108 posted on 06/30/2016 8:00:45 PM PDT by yarddog (Romans 8:38-39, For I am persuaded.)
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To: dangerdoc

That would be a nice conversion.

When I was doing my research on this recent conversion, someone on one of the gun forums was bragging about his 625 conversion. Piece of cake, and cheap; If I remember correctly all he had to do was rent a reamer and in a half hour, he was done.

I’ve had a 460 Rowland Carbine upper conversion for a couple of years, and it is a lot of fun, yet suitable for serious purposes too.. After my last campout in an area that is posted for bad bears, and I didn’t want to carry my six pound .454 around, I decided rather than spend a thousand bucks or more on a more compact .454 or .44 Mag or a Ruger .45LC capable of ++P pressures, I’d go ahead and spend the $300 on the Rowland conversion.

After a bit of frustration, I got it to where I trust it in any situation, short of an angry Grizzly or Kodiak....


109 posted on 06/30/2016 8:01:07 PM PDT by LegendHasIt
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To: PROCON
With the new hollow points, any 9mm with 4in barrel or better is a damn fine round.

These new hot 9mm rounds are DEADLY. They immediately expand to .50-.70 and punch right through at 1200fps.

110 posted on 06/30/2016 8:16:29 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: papertyger
"The only .40s I've shot that were adequately sized for the round are an H&K and a Sig. "

I have a Beretta Model 96 (.40) Brigadier. Alloy frame, heavy slide and 5in barrel.

I have AT LEAST 2000 rds through it and it's never, ever misfired or failed to eject.

And it's darn pretty to look at with the "Border Marshall Special" emblazoned on the side in gold leaf. "Brigadier" on the other.

Of course it's too big and heavy for concealed carry, not powerful enough for a sidearm in the woods.

But it's damn perfect on the nightstand.

I've never cleaned it, I just wipe the dust from the parts you can see.

111 posted on 06/30/2016 8:34:37 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: circlecity

More people need to add Trace Laser grips to their hardware, and aim for the head,IMO. Do you ever think what an attacker is thinking when he sees the laser flash across his eyes. He’s got two choices fire a shot and maybe get shot in the head or run.


112 posted on 06/30/2016 8:39:10 PM PDT by B4Ranch ("The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.")
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To: circlecity

Interesting. Thanks.


113 posted on 06/30/2016 8:41:17 PM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: circlecity
"A bad guy can keep coming after being hit with either if you don't hit him in the head or spinal column."

If you hit them 2in either side of their dick they drop like a sack of potatoes and can't even roll over.

It allow plenty of time for follow-up shots.

Those worried about a perp shooting back on the street, and those who believe he who shoots first has a 80% chance of living, would do well to practice this shot from quick-draw waist level.

90% of shootouts are within 8ft. Shoot first and drop 'em. Follow up.

That's now being taught at the FBI shooting school.

114 posted on 06/30/2016 8:45:19 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: PROCON

What a bunch of “girlie-men” ! Carry & USE a Colt Anaconda or stay at home wit da women and chilrun !!
.45 Long Colt baby will git ‘er done !

Snoot ;o)


115 posted on 06/30/2016 9:33:35 PM PDT by snooter55 (People may doubt what you say, but they will always believe what you do)
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To: papertyger
They wouldn't be so bad if all the manufacturers didn't insist on stuffing them into undersized 9mm frames. The only .40s I've shot that were adequately sized for the round are an H&K and a Sig.

I've got a .40 Firestar. It's about the size of a Colt Mustang .380. Thank goodness it's all steel. Even with the extra weight, it's a beast to fire.

Mark

116 posted on 06/30/2016 9:54:56 PM PDT by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: MarkL

I have a Firestar too.

It is the heaviest gun for it’s size I have ever seen. It literally feels like a hunk of lead. It is small enough to fit your pocket but would make your pants droop to one side.

Never given any problem and pretty mild in recoil to me. I finally found two spare mags but they are really scarce and for some reason, expensive.


117 posted on 07/01/2016 3:51:31 AM PDT by yarddog (Romans 8:38-39, For I am persuaded.)
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To: PROCON
"Interesting info, do you have a link?"

No, I didn't save the links. A quick google search should find it or just do a search on youtube for the videos on it - they were very good.

118 posted on 07/01/2016 4:19:29 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: NFHale

Something about That Ole 1911.


119 posted on 07/01/2016 6:32:06 AM PDT by Big Red Badger (UNSCANABLE in an IDIOCRACY!)
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To: Chode

So... THAT’S what “Molon Labe” REALLY means!!! It means “HELLO KITTY”!!! in Greek!

Haha!!!

is that Anne Barnhardt?


120 posted on 07/01/2016 9:23:50 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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