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To: colorado tanker
This is really dumb. Germany couldn’t devise a more effective plan to push more countries out.

I was thinking much the same thing. It's one thing to practice coercion through carrot and stick diplomacy. It's quite another to take prospective allies and tell them that their choice is either a difficult, vindictive time on exit, or subjugation within the EU.

One thing I might differ on--I used to think the French were driving the EU boat, trying in French fashion (remember the pre-WW I alliances) to bind Germany more tightly to Europe. Maybe it's the Germans now. Economically, yes. But diplomatically? I don't know, except for Merkel's crazed immigrant-push.

21 posted on 06/27/2016 5:40:31 PM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: Pearls Before Swine
One thing I might differ on--I used to think the French were driving the EU boat, trying in French fashion (remember the pre-WW I alliances) to bind Germany more tightly to Europe. Maybe it's the Germans now.

Historically, the EU was a French-German partnership that the others allowed to lead. I think the idea was just as you suggest - to keep Germany close and in tow. (Interestingly, when NATO was formed the Brits had the same idea, but once the Cold War was on in earnest NATO was no longer needed to keep Germany in the West.) My impression is that in recent years Germany has been calling the shots. It doesn't help that France just can't get its economic act together so Germany can follow the golden rule - he who has the gold rules.

27 posted on 06/27/2016 5:49:45 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: Pearls Before Swine
One thing I might differ on--I used to think the French were driving the EU boat, trying in French fashion (remember the pre-WW I alliances) to bind Germany more tightly to Europe. Maybe it's the Germans now.

Historically, the EU was a French-German partnership that the others allowed to lead. I think the idea was just as you suggest - to keep Germany close and in tow. (Interestingly, when NATO was formed the Brits had the same idea, but once the Cold War was on in earnest NATO was no longer needed to keep Germany in the West.) My impression is that in recent years Germany has been calling the shots. It doesn't help that France just can't get its economic act together so Germany can follow the golden rule - he who has the gold rules.

29 posted on 06/27/2016 5:50:10 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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