Posted on 02/25/2016 4:56:21 PM PST by sparklite2
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Presidential candidate Donald Trump admires the late Douglas MacArthur and George Patton, both World War Two generals. They were winners, unpredictable, and not especially nice guys, he says in campaign speeches. But Trump's pledge to imitate their styles sets modern-day military experts on edge.
Born in 1946, a year after World War Two ended, Trump often praises MacArthur and Patton for the blunt ways he says they commanded respect. "George Patton was one of the roughest guys, he would talk rough to his men," Trump told an audience last week in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. "His men would die for him," Trump added. "We don't have that anymore." He said Patton would wipe out Islamic State without hesitation were he still in command.
But military historians and retired generals say Trump has an inflated view of the two military men and especially their relevance to an era of modern warfare when armies rely more on technology and when battle successes and failures and civilian casualties are communicated far more rapidly than when MacArthur and Patton commanded troops 70 years ago.
(Excerpt) Read more at oann.com ...
Heinz Guderian for me.
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He was great. So was Rommel, my pick.
I have three different books about Patton including his diary.
Metz was a tough nut to crack. If I remember, it was surrounded by forts. Patton in his usual style kept attacking but the attacks were repelled. He finally did capture it tho.
These guys now seen to be a parody of themselves... look at that Donald Trump he like winner Generals!!!...wow... that’s a weak spot let attack that!
I can guarantee you he will not let America be sacrificed to give the One World Order our Sovereignty. i hope he DOES ignore and cancel a helluvalot of ridiculous “orders’ by Obama.
You sound more and more like one of those ridiculous people who expect everything to be perfect all the time. S**T happens, and we’d better have someone who can think on his feet and be a leader, not a “Policy Wonk.” (Thanks to Duncan Hunter for such an apt point.)
I’ve always felt if Truman had let MacArthur loose in Korea, there would never have been a Vietnam.But then the little Hat Merchant knew more about winning wars than MacArthur.....or so he thought! How many American lives have been lost because of Truman’s false pride?
But when he prevailed over Nimitz and got FDR to agree to retake the Philippines rather than bypassing them as the navy wanted, he threw away tens of thousands of American lives.
Just so he could walk up that goddamned beach and preen about his "return" in front of the newsreel cameras.
Full disclosure - my uncle left an arm on Luzon, February 1945.
you said “his pattern of ignoring orders he felt were ridiculousâ€
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I’ll remind you that another very great general, Rommel, had the habit of ignoring orders he thought were ridiculous too.
I'll take Bill Slim over any other WWII general, of any country.
In Korea, MacArthur was mostly responsible for the utter CATASTROPHE that befell the 8th Army, particularly the near destruction of the 2nd Infantry Division at Kunu-Ri, and the annihillation of Task Force McLean/Faith east of the Chosen Resovoir, as well as the 80 mile withdrawal of X Corp. He utterly ignored the solid intelligence of the build-up of NINE CCF Armies consisting of 300,000 men, who had crossed the Yalu River, routed the ROK 6th and 8th Divisions, cut the US 8th Cavalry Regiment to pieces at Unsan, roughed up the 5th Cav, forced the 24th Division to break off an attack, and mauled the Brit Commonwealth Brigade.
This was largely due to his ego, and a single minded myopic focus on advancing to the Yalu at the expense of prudent military caution. He was a great commander, but some of his personality quirks resulted in near disaster on many occasions.
There is a difference between taking risks than taking stupid immoral actions which are also very risky.
Daddy landed at Normandy and fought all the way to VE day in a combat battalion. His outfit was never assigned to Patton but it didn’t matter. Daddy practically worshiped the man.
He also said that Patton would often write letters to a soldiers parents if they caught a venereal disease which Patton despised. Patton wrote his wife every day.
Very good Bryon. Tells all that we need to know about the two (one party) system.
"They were the media whores of their time," said Daniel Drezner, a professor at International politics at the Fletcher School of Law & Diplomacy at Tufts University who often writes on national security.
There are a lot of things a lot of people know which are not so.
The French purposely let themselves get surrounded by truly massive North Vietnamese forces knowing that America had promised to use nuclear weapons to kill all the NV at one time.
A U.S. Senator, Lyndon Johnson found out about it and forced the issue. The U.S. would not use the weapons and the French who fought as well as soldiers ever fought were all killed or captured.
The Japanese sure thought the Philippines were a valuable target. They sent nearly their whole remaining fleet including their last four aircraft carriers and both super battleships along with the largest fleet they ever assembled just to try and hold the Philippines.
That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
“He did catch the commies flatfooted at Inchon”
True, but he threw it away by getting bogged down trying to retake the city of Seoul instead of cutting off the NKPA’s retreat from the south.
The French’s miscalculation at Dien Bein Phu was that the Viet Minh were not capable in moving their artillery into the terrain, they were. The US never promised the use of nuclear weapons in Indochina in 1953-54. Every serious book I have read on this conflict, and I have read many, have never mentioned this promise. The thought was brought up and swiftly shot down by Eisenhower.
Urban fighting didn’t suit his cavalry man’s style.
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The battle of “Metz” was not really urban fighting. The city of Metz had been a Citadel for hundreds and hundreds of years. It was a FORTIFIED CITY, but the surrounding countryside was also full of Forts (Verdun, for example)which held out, many connected by underground tunnels and massive armaments originally built by the French. Metz was captured by the Prussians in the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-71 and ceded to Prussia in the Frankfort Treaty. It came back to the possession of France following WW I and was immediately seized and declared German by Hitler in 1940. Following WW II, it finally came back to France as it remains today. I know the city well and the surrounding countryside and forts, many in number. It was considered impregnable, yet eventually fell to Patton’s troops. It was a three month battle, from September to December, but comprised of many skirmishes and scattered confrontations as well as an all out assault. Casualties were high on both sides.
There was a two hour program about Dien Bein Phu maybe10 years ago. It was on one of the History type channels and gave a very detailed account of the battle.
The French knew they were getting surrounded and by a vast number, something like 50 to one. They had been promised American aid and that was the place to wipe the NVA out. That included nuclear weapons if necessary. Even if nuclear arms were not used, American jets would cover the mountain tops with napalm. Lyndon Johnson was the one who put a stop to it, then with the story out, we just left them to die.
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