Trump's claim that Dems would challenge Cruz's eligibility on firm ground

The Washington Examiner ^ | 1/15/2016 | SEAN HIGGINS

[BlackFemaleArmyColonel]

Donald Trump defended his argument that his Republican presidential rival Sen. Ted Cruz should not be the GOP nominee because he was not born inside the U.S. by arguing that Democrats would mount a legal challenge to his eligibility for office.

"I am not bringing a suit, but the Democrats are going to be filing a lawsuit," Trump warned during Thursday's night's debate on Fox Business.

The Texas senator laughed off the argument, saying that there was no legal question that he was eligible. Noting that he was a constitutional lawyer who has argued cases before the Supreme Court, he said he was "not taking legal advice from Donald Trump."

However, Trump's claim that Democrats would mount a challenge regarding Cruz's eligibility is plausible. At least one, Rep. Alan Grayson, D-Fla., has already said he would do exactly that. Other Democrats and liberal thought leaders appear to be warming to the idea.

"Technically, he's not even an American... The Constitution says natural-born Americans, so now we're counting Canadians as natural-born Americans? How does that work?" Grayson told radio host Alan Colmes in November. "I'm waiting for the moment that he gets the nomination and then I will file that beautiful lawsuit saying that he's unqualified for the job because he's ineligible."

[JEDI4S]

Ted should just get the piece of paper and shove it in everyone’s face.

If he can't .... Vice President Sarah Palin will have to do?

Just saying.....

[P-Marlowe]

If I read the 20th amendment correctly, eligibility is to be determined at the electoral college. If the president elect is deemed to have failed to "qualify" then the vice president elect becomes president until such time as the president elect becomes eligible.

IOW let's say the president elect is 34 on the day that he is supposed to take office. At that point the vice president would be president until the president elect turned 35.

Since we do not have direct elections for president, but the election is really for a slate of electors, a State Secretary of State might try to keep a name off of a ballot on the grounds that the person is not eligible, but then Cruz or the Republican party would simply file a writ of mandamus which would get an emergency hearing. They need not ask the court to determine if Cruz is a Natural Born Citizen, they need only state that a secretary of state has no right to make that determination.

That being said, the democrat party has no standing to challenge Cruz, just as the people who tried to get Obama off the ballot or removed from office had no standing.

From a constitutional perspective, the courts have no jurisdiction and the democrats have no standing.

You are right that they might try something stupid like that, but from a legal and constitutional perspective, they have no case.

But then again the constitution has no meaning anymore anyway.

[John Valentine]

There has to be some kind of documentation of his American citizenship.

There is. His birth certificate and his mother's.

For things in the U.S. that require citizenship, what would he present? His mother's birth certificate?

His and his mother's. There is also a State Department form called "Certificate of US Citizen Born Abroad", but requesting one is not a requirement, and Cruz has not produced one to the public. Still, he may have one; I don't have any way of knowing. If his mother was diligent, she would have requested one. But if she didn't, it's not dispositive of anything.

[poconopundit]

...And Trump wants to win Iowa! You got it.   One of the sterling virtues of this man is he's persistent as hell.   And he has asked Iowans many times for their vote.   And he's proving that he cares about winning Iowa with his many rallies there.   And how easy it would be for Trump to ignore Iowa!   After all, he's leading across the country.   But no, Trump wants to win Iowa and he tells them so. Ask and you shall receive.   Ask long enough and sincerely enough, and who could turn you down?   My hunch: Iowans are not going to disappoint a man with such a burning desire to get their vote. And another thing that's not been emphasized much.   Even though Trump has blasted plenty of reporters and enemies in this fight, if you'll notice, he's also praised and said thank you to many, many people -- even reporters and columnist who have trashed him previously. Iowans notice the sincere gratitude of the man.   And I think they are also looking forward to hearing Trump say "thank you".

[Behind the Blue Wall]

His mother’s birth certificate by itself doesn’t prove that she was a citizen at the time of his birth.

[John Valentine]

I was issued a U.S. birth certificate...

You may be referring to the "Consular Report of Birth Abroad", Form FS-240.

I am unfamiliar with the laws of Northern Rhodesia/Zambia, but it appears that they granted you a kind of conditional citizenship that had to be confirmed by you before turning 18. Their laws are their laws, this notice by 18 is NOT US law. BTW, you are a US Citizen by birth. Most would say that makes you a natural born citizen, but there are those who insist that there is a kind of super citizenship that is required for those who aspire to the Presidency.

[John Valentine]

His mother's birth certificate by itself doesn't prove that she was a citizen at the time of his birth.

It certainly does if you can't come up with proof that she renounced her citizenship in accordance with 8 U.S.C. 1481(a)(5)) as follows:

A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:

=========

1. appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,

2. in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and

3. sign an oath of renunciation

Renunciations that do not meet the conditions described above have no legal effect.

===========

A Renunciation of Citizenship by Cruz's mother would be a HOT document, which, as part of the public record, would have been retrieved and posted all over the internet by now it it existed.

You need to find a new meme.

[Liz]

.......at the debate, Trump had Cruz squirming like a worm on a hook;
watching Cruz squirm, he knows his birth issue is like a pair of concrete boots.....

Boom....your concrete boots imagery really sinks it.

Cruz blasting anyone who dares say he isn't a citizen is very telling.
As the Bard sagely wrote Methinks he protesteth too much.

=================================================

By the laws of 1790 and 1795, George Washington would not have considered Cruz eligible for the presidency. The relevant portion of the 1790 laws says: And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens: Provided, that the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States:

INCONVENIENT FACTOIDS

<><> At the time of his birth in Canada, Cruz's father was prolly a Cuban citizen, and a Canadian living in Canada (dodging the draft?). Cruz Sr had not established an intent to be loyal to the USA and was actually listed w/ his American born-wife on the list of Canadian electors.

<><> Constitutional scholar, Ted Cruz, w/ two Ivy League degrees, including a law degree, has, no doubt, rigorously studied the issue of his citizenship down to the minutest detail.

<><> Cruz rightly says he is a US citizen but he surely knows he CANNOT be considered a natural born citizen; b/c he is a citizen by virtue of statute.

<><> Cruzs birth in Canada indicates he has THREE countries (The US via his mother, Canada his birthplace, and Cuba thru his father) having a legitimate claim on his allegiance from birth, whether he wanted it or not.

==============================================

The US Constitution and the rule of law must prevail. We should not yield to the same dark impulses of expediency and delusion that gave us the tyrannical sociopathic usurper demagogue Obama.

Choosing candidates who are creatures of the cult of personality has proved disastrous.

If we, the people, accept anything less than the constitution's original intent, frightening scenarios would unfold. Such as allowing the offspring of an American who joined ISIS and birthed a child in the Mideast w/ say, a Syrian, to claim eligibility for the office.

[John Valentine]

f the President is legitimately subject to legal action under another jurisdiction then that President is compromised on the international stage, and the interests of the US are compromised in turn.

You are altogether too delicate. By the way, who says the foreign legal action has to be "legitimate"? And in whose eyes?

[sten]

it is WELL KNOWN the Founders wanted to insure no foreign king would ever become POTUS. they also wanted to insure no split loyalties in such a person, at least by birth. This is the EXACT reason they used the phrase ‘natural born citizen’ instead of just ‘citizen’, as they had for every other position they defined.

furthermore, they used a term WELL KNOWN to them and those with similar backgrounds. in 1758, a book called ‘the law of nations’ defined the term ‘natural born citizen’ as someone being born of a two citizen parents.

additionally, the US doesn’t actually have ‘birthright citizenship’ (being born on the soil) as some believe was introduced by the 14th Amendment. this can be seen in statements by those who wrote the statement, as well as the statement itself... as the citizenship is awarded to the child, if the child’s parents reside in the state and are subject to its jurisdiction (illegals do not reside in a state nor are they subject to its jurisdiction). Canada is the only developed country that still has birthright citizenship.

therefore, as for BH0bama, his citizenship could only be awarded through his mother... unfortunately, she was 18 and not able to do that under the clause ‘five years after the age of 14’. any claims he was born in hawaii are irrelevant, as the US doesn’t have birthright citizenship. which leaves his citizenship to come from his father. as such, per the definition used by the Founders in ‘the law of nations’, 0bama is not a natural born citizen and should never have been allowed on the ticket, let alone being able to assume the position.

now for TCruz, when he was born, his mother was old enough to transfer US citizenship, therefore he is a US citizen. He was also born in canada to a cuban father... which results in him also being a canadian and cuban citizen. as a bonus, he would also have british citizenship by being born in a commonwealth. therefore, being born to parents of different citizenships, TCruz is not a natural born citizen, as defined by ‘the law of nations’

[GeaugaRepublican]

In Iowa it is a statistical tie, all primaries from there Cruz is way behind.

[BlackFemaleArmyColonel]

He needs to do something. VP would have been good for him. That is over.

[BlackFemaleArmyColonel]

You can be sure they will.

[BlackFemaleArmyColonel]

Oh oh.

[JEDI4S]

I don't think that it is over. Trump must know that Ted could help him sweep the South. Donald had a Freudian slip because he likes Ted and knows he would be a great V.P.

I think they'll fix this over time.

Remember, the establishment hates Cruz as much at Trump.

The N.Y. thing did backfire...for now...but the folks that stayed home for Romney...know exactly what Ted meant by that...and they will come out in droves for him if he is on the general ticket...Donald knows this.

Now Ted has to solve this. He should reach out and have Trump help him...and Trump will. Maybe not right now...but he will.

There is still hope!

Jedi

[dfwgator]

The problem is that both Trump and Cruz and really trying to reach to find things to diss each other with, and it’s ridiculous.

[BlackFemaleArmyColonel]

I disagree.

[BlackFemaleArmyColonel]

Trump did make a Freudian slip. He really “wanted” Cruz as VP.

I’m not sure anymore.

[HarleyLady27]

It’s hanging over America’s head and who is at fault? The Supreme Court of the United States of American by letting obuma become president...they should remove him from office immediately, and erase everything he has done in the past 7 years...let Biden fill out the term until January 21,2017...

This is the only way America will survive this....

[BlackFemaleArmyColonel]

“I really hope that everyone finally realized just how desperate Trump truly is./ Like Cruz said the only thing that has changed since September are the poll numbers.”

Here’s how I see it...

I really hope that everyone finally realized just how ineligible Cruz truly is./ Like Trump said last night Cruz needs to get a declaratory judgment.