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To: PeaRidge; rockrr; Tau Food
PeaRidge: "All of that because they would not repeal the Morrill Tariff?
It is apparent that the issue of slavery was now moot, but the sectional arrogance and hostility would block reasoned politics or taxation policy."

Pure fantasy.
First of all, the Morrill Tariff only passed after Confederate states walked out of Congress, and no Confederate offer was ever made to rejoin the Union if only Morrill was repealed.
That issue was never on the table for negotiation.

Second of all, slavery was never an issue of negotiation.
No demands regarding slavery were made by Presidents Buchanan or Lincoln in the months before war started.
Of course, slavery was a big issue in the minds of Southern Fire Eaters, it was the reason they declared secession.
And northerners had various proposal to ease Southern concerns over their "peculiar institution".

But nothing regarding slavery was being negotiated during the months the Confederacy was furiously provoking, starting and declaring war on the United States.

920 posted on 09/06/2015 3:44:07 PM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK; PeaRidge
Like I said before, PeaRidge understands the facts. He seems to want to argue the cause of the "secessionists" while rejecting their arguments.

Over and over again, the "secessionists" argued that "secession" was for the purpose of preserving slavery. They could not have been more clear in their language. Anyone with any doubt about why the "secessionists" tried to "secede" should just read Mississippi's "declaration of secession." But, PeaRidge apparently wants no part of the argument made by the pro-slavery "secessionists" and so he pretends that the "secessionists" were wrong about their motivations and that "secession" was really all about taxes.

Over and over again, the "secessionists" insisted that they had a right to tell the United States Government to take a hike and that they had the right to create a new government (Confederate States of America) no matter what that might mean for their neighbors. It was the intention of the "secessionists" that people living in the South would lose their status as citizens of the United States and that they would lose all of their rights under the United States Constitution. The "secessionists" intended to replace that status and those rights with a new status (they would be citizens of the new government that they were forming) and that their neighbors would get new "rights" under the new CSA Constitution in exchange for their old rights under the U.S. Constitution. But, PeaRidge doesn't like the way that sounds so he rejects the "secessionists" position and pretends that somehow nobody's rights were going to be altered in the process of changing governments. Of course, that's crazy, but that's what PeaRidge is actually saying.

Maybe PeaRidge should add, "Sure, there would be a new Confederate Constitution, but the people of the South would have the right to keep their old Constitution, too, if they liked it."

Now, where have I heard that before?

927 posted on 09/06/2015 4:11:29 PM PDT by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: BroJoeK
You said: “First of all, the Morrill Tariff only passed after Confederate states walked out of Congress...”

You are setting up a straw man argument.

You have already seen, and ignored the passage of the Morrill Tariff.

The Morrill bill was passed out of committee and brought up for a floor vote near the end of first session of the Congress (December 1859 – June 1860).

The vote was on May 10, 1860; the bill passed by a vote of 105 to 64.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/36-1/h151

Next March the Senate voted to pass the Morrill Tariff and it became law.

Senate confirmation did not matter to the Southern states. As a result of the elections, they were not able to resist.

One Southern Senator summed it up this way:

Thirty-eight northern Senators you will have upon this floor. We shall have thirty to your thirty-eight. After the 4th of March, the Senator from California, the Senator from Indiana, the Senator from New Jersey, and the Senator from Minnesota will be here. "That reduces the northern phalanx to thirty-four...There are four of the northern Senators upon whom we can rely, whom we know to be friends, whom we have trusted in our days of trial heretofore, and in whom, as Constitution-loving men, we will trust.

"Then we stand thirty-four to thirty-four, and your Black Republican Vice President to give the casting vote. "Mr. Lincoln can make his own nominations with perfect security that they will be confirmed by this body, even if every slaveholding State should remain in the Union, which, thank God, they will not do."

For this leading political figure, the election of the Republicans meant that Congressional re-apportionment would cause the South to lose itself to the North.

1,060 posted on 09/08/2015 12:26:29 PM PDT by PeaRidge
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