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To: PeaRidge; rockrr; x; Ditto; DoodleDawg
PeaRidge: "Firing of weapons, whether in serious hostility or not, does not mean war has been declared."

Any firing of weapons on a country's military is a provocation of war.
It's the reason why, from 1939 through the end of 1941, Adolf Hitler ordered his U-boats not to sink US warships in the Atlantic -- he did not wish to give President Roosevelt any excuses for declaring a war existed.

PeaRidge: "You may be aware that the first shots were fired by Federal troops on Florida civilian militia in the area of the old Spanish Fort San Carlos in Pensacola in January of 1861.
The next day the Star of the West, a federal ship under contract to run supplies into Ft. Sumter received fire and retired from the area of Ft. Moultrie."

In both cases, aggressive provocation was committed by secessionist forces against US military.

PeaRidge: "Following these events, nothing changed. No declaration of war, nothing."

Just as, for example, Congress did not declare war on Germany before December 7, 1941 despite sinkings of US ships, and deaths of US sailors, by German U-boats.
Despite FDR's urgings, Congress didn't want war, and was not satisfied that German provocations were enough to force war on us.
Nevertheless, as with Confederate provocations in 1861, German provocations in 1941 clearly indicated that war was growing ever closer.

PeaRidge: "The same is true of the firing on Ft. Sumter.
The seceded states remained in place.
No invasion, nothing.
Civilian shipping from New York continued to reach Charleston in peace."

In fact, there were numerous provocations of war related to Fort Sumter, beginning in December 1860 with secessionists' demands for its surrender, threats against Union officials, and firing on Union resupply ships.
The Confederate assault and forced surrender in April, 1861 was only their latest and most egregious act of war.

When you assault and force surrender of a country's military force, that is an act of war, regardless of what you or they may call it.
Indeed, relative to the small size of the American military at the time, 1861, the Confederate assault on troops in Fort Sumter was just as major as the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941.

And it was every bit as much an act of war as the Japanese attack, about which FDR famously said:

In Roosevelt's mind, the war did not begin when Congress declared it, but rather when Japan started it, on December 7.

PeaRidge: "...after the conflict the United States Supreme Court held the institution of the blockade to constitute the legal commencement of the Civil War."

In fact, the Supreme Court's 1870 decision was very clear in saying that War of Rebellion began & ended at many different times in many different places.
So, the only purpose of its decision was to establish how much time could be extended on a certain statute of limitations.

The Supreme Court in 1870 had no intention to provide Lost Causers 145 years later with a tool for venting their anger & hatreds of Lincoln specifically, Republicans in general.

Bottom line: regardless of the Supreme Court's 1870 ruling on a particular statute of limitations case, actual major force-on-force warfare began at Fort Sumter, April 12, 1861.
But no Confederate soldier was killed directly in battle with any Union force until Big Bethel on June 10, 1861, more than a month after the Confederacy formally declared war on the United States.
By that time, dozens of Union troops had been killed, more than 100 wounded and 500 captured as POWs by pro-Confederates.

689 posted on 08/27/2015 9:34:05 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK; DiogenesLamp; DoodleDawg; rockrr; Ditto; x; rustbucket
Brojoek, in over a dozen of your postings on this dead thread and several others, you say that the “Confederate government declared war on the Union.”

The declaration would likely look like this:

From the archives of the Government of the Confederate States of America.

On this date the Confederate Congress voted in the majority to declare war on the United States of America.

signed, Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America

I have looked in every source I have, and cannot locate that document.

Could you supply your source for your comments?

773 posted on 08/30/2015 9:27:52 AM PDT by PeaRidge
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