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To: BlueLancer
None of those are mutually exclusive and, thus, to me, it becomes a "chicken-or-the-egg" argument that just goes round and round.

My personal opinion is that the principles put forth in the Declaration of Independence apply as well to the Confederacy as they did to the 13 colonies.

The Declaration asserts that people have a right to leave a larger union and create whatever sort of government suits them.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
This is the principle that founded our own government, so I think it is rather hypocritical for our government to apply a different set of standards to a group of states which want to leave the Federal Union.

If the need to "Preserve the Union" is the higher principle involved, then how could we have broken from the British Union?

385 posted on 08/17/2015 3:52:21 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp
There was no "union" in 1776. A "colony" is quite distinct from a State that is one of many. "British Union"? Eh? What is that mate? Methinks it was a Monarchy. Lincoln would respond to you thusly:

"I hold that in contemplation of universal law and of the Constitution the Union of these States is perpetual. Perpetuity is implied, if not expressed, in the fundamental law of all national governments. It is safe to assert that no government proper ever had a provision in its organic law for its own termination. Continue to execute all the express provisions of our National Constitution, and the Union will endure forever, it being impossible to destroy it except by some action not provided for in the instrument itself. Again: If the United States be not a government proper, but an association of States in the nature of contract merely, can it, as a contract, be peaceably unmade by less than all the parties who made it? One party to a contract may violate it—break it, so to speak—but does it not require all to lawfully rescind it?"

391 posted on 08/17/2015 4:25:20 PM PDT by HandyDandy (Don't make-up stuff. It just wastes everybody's time.)
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To: DiogenesLamp
"This is the principle that founded our own government, so I think it is rather hypocritical for our government to apply a different set of standards to a group of states which want to leave the Federal Union. If the need to "Preserve the Union" is the higher principle involved, then how could we have broken from the British Union?"

I will not disagree with you there.

However, at what level does this become hypocrisy for all concerned ---

West Virginia "seceded" from Virginia during the war and the Federal Government had nothing to say about it.

On the flip side, several counties in Alabama wanted to remain with the Union and attempted to "secede" from Alabama. The Confederacy sent in troops to prevent it.

Hypocrisy abounds ...

400 posted on 08/17/2015 5:05:40 PM PDT by BlueLancer (Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action.)
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