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To: DiogenesLamp
There was no "union" in 1776. A "colony" is quite distinct from a State that is one of many. "British Union"? Eh? What is that mate? Methinks it was a Monarchy. Lincoln would respond to you thusly:

"I hold that in contemplation of universal law and of the Constitution the Union of these States is perpetual. Perpetuity is implied, if not expressed, in the fundamental law of all national governments. It is safe to assert that no government proper ever had a provision in its organic law for its own termination. Continue to execute all the express provisions of our National Constitution, and the Union will endure forever, it being impossible to destroy it except by some action not provided for in the instrument itself. Again: If the United States be not a government proper, but an association of States in the nature of contract merely, can it, as a contract, be peaceably unmade by less than all the parties who made it? One party to a contract may violate it—break it, so to speak—but does it not require all to lawfully rescind it?"

391 posted on 08/17/2015 4:25:20 PM PDT by HandyDandy (Don't make-up stuff. It just wastes everybody's time.)
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To: HandyDandy
There was no "union" in 1776. A "colony" is quite distinct from a State that is one of many. "British Union"? Eh? What is that mate? Methinks it was a Monarchy.

You might look at this.

It explains how the British flag looks like this:

The Cross of Saint Andrew counterchanged with the Cross of Saint Patrick, over all the Cross of Saint George.

You see, it was a "Union."

"I hold that in contemplation of universal law and of the Constitution the Union of these States is perpetual. Perpetuity is implied, if not expressed, in the fundamental law of all national governments.

Thank you for posting that. We now have it in Lincoln's own words that he is reading this interpretation into the constitution. I guess this is the first example of the US constitution being interpreted as a "living constitution" with deep and hidden meanings only perceivable by the enlightened who are just smarter then we mere mortals who see naught but straightforward concepts with little in the way of hidden meaning.

Unfortunately, he is contradicted completely by the Declaration of Independence, which in my opinion is a far higher authority than the US Constitution. The Constitution is merely a rule book, while the Declaration is what created this nation.

It is safe to assert that no government proper ever had a provision in its organic law for its own termination.

Histrionics. The 13 slave holding colonies didn't destroy the British Union because they left, and the Southern States would not have destroyed the Union by their leaving either.

If the United States be not a government proper, but an association of States in the nature of contract merely, can it, as a contract, be peaceably unmade by less than all the parties who made it?

The founders answered this question in the affirmative. Yes, people can leave a larger union without the consent of the rest of the Union. See Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776.

393 posted on 08/17/2015 4:41:31 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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