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To: DoodleDawg
Your point is the same point that you post time after time.

No, it's a new point, but you are certainly treating it as if it wasn't. Your cavalier dismissal of points which do not suit your narrative is simply evidence of your subjectivity.

Lincoln sent an armed force to Ft. Sumter. He said he wasn't going to do that, but he lied. He did not send them to play patty cake, he sent them there to fight.

151 posted on 08/12/2015 12:00:34 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp
No, it's a new point, but you are certainly treating it as if it wasn't.

It's the same old, same old.

Lincoln sent an armed force to Ft. Sumter. He said he wasn't going to do that, but he lied. He did not send them to play patty cake, he sent them there to fight.

How is it a lie? In his message sent to Governor Pickens and delivered by Robert Chew, Lincoln told the governor "...to expect an attempt will be made to supply Fort-Sumpter with provisions only; and that, if such attempt be not resisted, no effort to throw in men, arms, or amunition, will be made, without further notice, or in case of an attack upon the Fort." It would be hard th throw in men, arms, and ammunition if they weren't there. Lincoln made it clear that men and munitions would be on the resupply fleet, but also made it clear that they would not be landed in the fort unless the resupply effort was opposed. There was no lie.

155 posted on 08/12/2015 12:31:30 PM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: DiogenesLamp
HOLD AND RETAKE.........NOTHING AS INNOCENT AS RESUPPLY...IN LINCOLN'S OWN WORDS;

12/12/1860 In an unprecedented action, Mr. Lincoln sent a secret message to his future subordinate Commander of the Army, General Winfield Scott.

From the Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln , vol. 4

To Elihu B. Washburne

Confidential
Hon. E. B. Washburne Springfield, Ills., Dec. 21. 1860

My dear Sir:
Last night I received your letter giving an account of your interview with Gen. Scott, and for which I thank you. Please present my respects to the General, and tell him, confidentially, I shall be obliged to him to be as well prepared as he can to either hold, or retake, the forts, as the case may require, at, and after the inauguration.

Yours as ever
A. LINCOLN

Lincoln had begun to formulate a plan to seize Ft. Sumter and Ft. Barranas even before his inauguration, and was interfering with the current administration.

168 posted on 08/12/2015 1:31:53 PM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: DiogenesLamp; PeaRidge; DoodleDawg; x; rockrr
DiogenesLamp: "Lincoln sent an armed force to Ft. Sumter.
He said he wasn't going to do that, but he lied.
He did not send them to play patty cake, he sent them there to fight. "

All of Lincoln's troops were under orders not to fight unless attacked.
And that is exactly what Lincoln telegraphed to South Carolina's governor.

Lincoln's mission to resupply Fort Sumter was just that -- resupply -- unless attacked, at which point it was to become to reinforce Sumter.
As such, it was no more an "act of war" than, for examples: any resupply/reinforce mission to British forts on US territory after 1781, or today's resupply & reinforcement missions to disputed Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

So, if the Communist Cubans someday chose to call our resupply of Guantanamo an "act of war" and launch a military assault against us, they will have started the resulting war.

Just as Jefferson Davis did in April 1861, at Fort Sumter.

451 posted on 08/18/2015 9:27:52 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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