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To: BroJoeK
As is Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, whose new Communist government has never recognized the US right to be there.

We stole the entire Island from Spain, so what was anybody gonna do about it?

The US Constitution clearly gives Congress authority over Federal properties.

In the same manner that English Law gave Britain authority over British Forts.

The US Constitution clearly gives Congress authority over Federal properties. If Jefferson Davis was serious about any negotiations, he would have sent emissaries to Congress.

Congress was not the sticking point. The guy with all the soldiers was the sticking point.

The fact that it took four long years to defeat that 20% demonstrates conclusively they were a considerable force.

When a man fights to protect his home, he gets a +5 on the attack, and a +25 on defense. Yes, the Confederates punched way out of their weight class, but that's because they were defending their homeland.

Had the Confederacy gained the full support of all Border State populations, the ratio of Union/Confederate instead of being 4 to 1 would have been 2 to 1, and if the Confederacy's slaves remained loyal, then the ratio would be almost one to one.

Had Lincoln allowed the Democratic process to work in it's normal manner, there was a good chance that such a thing might have happened. Lincoln locked up Legislators in Maryland to prevent a vote for secession. Maryland's state song still recalls this period of History.

The despot's heel is on thy shore,
Maryland!*
His torch is at thy temple door,
Maryland!
Avenge the patriotic gore
That flecked the streets of Baltimore,
And be the battle queen of yore,
Maryland! My Maryland!

VI
Dear Mother! burst the tyrant's chain,
Maryland!
Virginia should not call in vain,
Maryland!
She meets her sisters on the plain-
"Sic semper!" 'tis the proud refrain
That baffles minions back amain,
Maryland! My Maryland!

The "Tyrant" and "Despot" referred to in those Stanzas is Abraham Lincoln. :)

The results would certainly be not just Confederate victory, but Confederate domination over whatever little was left of the former United States.

That is a fact not in evidence.

642 posted on 07/30/2015 2:25:35 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp
DiogenesLamp: "We stole the entire Island from Spain, so what was anybody gonna do about it?"

The terms ending that war gave the US a lease on Guantanamo Bay, a lease which the US has exercised and paid ever since.
So no American actions in manning, resupplying or reinforcing our forces at Gitmo is an act of war against Cuba, but any assault by Cuba against our forces there would be an act of war against the United States.

Gitmo and Fort Sumter are identical in that regard.

DiogenesLamp: "Congress was not the sticking point.
The guy with all the soldiers was the sticking point."

But that "guy" Lincoln was not going to ever negotiate with Confederate emissaries on a matter over which the Constitution gave Congress authority.
And Jefferson Davis well knew that.
It's why he made a show of sending people to see the President, not Congress.

Davis had no real interest in peace.

DiogenesLamp: "Had Lincoln allowed the Democratic process to work in it's normal manner, there was a good chance that such a thing might have happened.
Lincoln locked up Legislators in Maryland to prevent a vote for secession."

If you knew your history, you'd know that Maryland's legislature did vote on secession, and defeated it overwhelmingly.
That was before the Confederacy started and formally declared war on the United States, acts which made any pro-Confederate Marylanders guilty of giving aid and comfort to the enemy -- treason.
Once the Confederacy declared war, then there could be no more question of Maryland lawfully declaring secession.

DiogenesLamp: "That is a fact not in evidence."

Given the Union's initially poor military leadership, Confederate victory might have come despite their manifest disadvantages.
It would almost certainly have come, had the odds been more in their favor.

As for who would dominate the other... well, a victorious slave-power would certainly have wished to have its agenda items satisfied, and sooner, not later.

711 posted on 07/30/2015 11:04:10 PM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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