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To: FredZarguna

there was more to jefferson than a few half understood quotes (always taken out of context, I might add) that conservatives love to trot out when it serves their purpose.

jefferson was easily the most distasteful, most scheming, and most unreliable of all the founding fathers that didn’t shoot another founding father in a duel.


8 posted on 07/05/2015 3:35:03 PM PDT by JohnBrowdie (http://forum.stink-eye.net)
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To: JohnBrowdie

Yes, he was. But was also for limited government. Jeffersonian Democracy contains the following core tenants:

— The national government is a dangerous necessity to be instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security of the people, nation or community; it should be watched closely and circumscribed in its powers.

— Separation of church and state is the best method to keep government free of religious disputes, and religion free from corruption by government.

— The federal government must not violate the rights of individuals. The Bill of Rights is a central theme.

— The federal government must not violate the rights of the states. The Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions of 1798 (written secretly by Jefferson and James Madison) proclaim these principles.

Call him what you want, but by any modern measurement, he would have been anything but a Democrat.


14 posted on 07/05/2015 3:39:57 PM PDT by bigdaddy45
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To: JohnBrowdie
Conservatives love Thomas Jefferson?

Come back and post when you aren't drunk.

Jefferson was a libertarian. He opposed the Big Government "conservatives" of his day, and he and his minions fought them tooth and nail.

23 posted on 07/05/2015 3:55:07 PM PDT by FredZarguna (Now, which is bigger, Pluto or Goofy?)
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To: JohnBrowdie
Aaron Burr fired the most valuable shot in American history. If you want to discuss schemers among the founders, Hamilton is the schemer in chief. His Federalist political party was destroyed by the voters. Eventually, the Whigs took up his fallen banner and made business profits their central goal until they were destroyed by Andrew Jackson and the voters. Lincoln emerged with the Republicans to take the business cause back onto center stage.

Today's GOP (Give Obozo Power) is well into destroying itself under pro-big business uber alles trash like McConnell and Boehner and the GOP National Committee Leadership. All that any of them care about is this year's corporate bottom line and the public be da*ned.

When Obozo proposed "Fast Track Authority" to allow him to sell out the man in the American Street, allow big corporations to lay him off and keep their fat profits abroad safe from American taxation, enshrine "free trade" on the altar of American law to maximize the salaries and profits of the big shots, and was joined by Wall Street, K Street and the US Chambers of Crony "Commerce," Mitchie McTurtle and the brain dead Suntan Man of the House came running like Pavlov's dog to slavishly serve "the interests." Yes, Massah, whatever you say, Massah. This is Hamilton's dream and our nightmare all in one super secret bill. So secret that even your Congressman or Senator cannot have a copy or even take notes. WHY IS THAT?????

Senator Jeff Sessions says that these treasonweasels are about nothing less than the destruction of American sovereignty in favor of an amoral international body serving the big business interests.

If these Hamiltonian jerks don't wake up and soon, an ever-increasing percentage of the GOP will refuse to vote. Say hello to POTUS Hillary, a Demonrat Senate, and, God forbid, a Demonrat House. They fight. Our cowards refuse to fight.

The GOP base consists not of country club snobs, corporate boodlers, and coupon clipper, but of what Obozo and, truth be known, the GOP "leaders" in secret deride as "bitter clingers." We are gun people, seriously religious defenders of actual marriage and of unborn babies and of traditional American values, believers in borders that keep cheap labor out, and, yes, believers that American jobs should be reserved for American workers, that employment should be stimulated and not suppressed, that the American dream (not Hamilton's) includes an expectation of increasing wages and increasing modest salaries for the first time since Nixon was POTUS, and that the USA should stop sitting still for being an international punching bag.

In the event that the TransPacific "Trade" Sellout were defeated, I don't know a single person who would say: "Oh, darn! I had so wanted to be laid off in favor of the transfer of my job to Bangladesh!" or "Golly, I wanted to be further ruled by the unelected and in TPP's case by the unAmerican powers like the European Union" which is apparently being invited into the TPP decision-making elite. Do you?

99 posted on 07/05/2015 5:16:08 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline: Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society/Rack 'em Danno!)
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