Posted on 06/14/2015 8:00:04 AM PDT by don-o
Four weeks after the deadly Twin Peaks shooting melee that left nine bikers dead, 177 others in jail with million-dollar bonds and way more questions than answers about biker subculture, due process in Waco and conflicting crime narratives, the two sides in all this are only hardening in their positions. In short, a microcosm of the American way.
Some vigorously support local law enforcement. They say the facts that bikers came to Wacos Twin Peaks restaurant well-armed and that search warrants reveal many wore colors of motorcycle gangs associated by the FBI and Texas Department of Public Safety with criminal activity, organized and otherwise, justifies the bikers incarceration and high bonds.
anip
The Trib may well have to revise its own estimation that the Twin Peaks dustup wont leave a stigma attached to Waco such as that spawned by the 51-day Branch Davidian siege of 1993, which sparked wild conspiracy theories while leaving Waco with a black eye that had only recently begun to disappear. With legal questions revolving around interpretations of the First, Second, Fourth, Fifth and Eighth amendments including the right to wear motorcycle gang colors if you so choose theres enough constitutional grist in this complicated saga to keep state and federal courts busy for years. And thats allowing also for a conspiracy theory or two. Its the American way.
(Excerpt) Read more at wacotrib.com ...
That is what I been asking, but none of the badge lickers want to answer that. It appears to me if they had knowledge that the crimes they describe had been committed, they would arrest the alleged subject. Perhaps they, the badge lickers could/should be prosecuted for assessor before the fact.
Wait until the police employ these tactics on a Tea
Party or Second Amendment Supporter gathering. The boot lickers will be orgasmic. I got and am reading the book you recommended.
I would say that 61 of them were undercover police, FBI, BATFE.
I see two of the resident trolls are tag teaming. You are right. Ignore them. They are only here to kill any discussion of the topic. That is what they have done on every thread since the beginning.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3299674/posts?page=26#26
There were 16 uniformed Waco Police Department Officers to include 5 Supervisors (3 Sergeants, 1 Commander and an Assistant Chief). Included in that number was a Tactical Element (SWAT Officers) assigned and present. None of the Officers were assigned in a sniper capacity
you guys love him.
I know I have mentioned this before, but it doesn’t seem to take. There is no ROE for police. There is the 4th Amendment and two SCOTUS decisions; Graham v. Connor and Tennessee v. Garner. To write an ROE, would open up a huge set of legal problems, like Ruby Ridge.
It's called projection, dear.
So is calling me a traitor projection, as well?
Here ya go:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3299674/posts
‘Police also said that 151 firearms were among the hundreds of weapons recovered from the scene that included knives, brass knuckles, tomahawks, bats, a machete and a chain. Some weapons were stashed in between bags of flour in the restaurant’s kitchen, while others were recovered with metal detectors, found buried under grass’........Can’t say about kalifornia, but in Texas that is pretty much armed to the teeth.
Of course you wannabe gangers have trouble with law enforcement and laws in general and refuse to believe the facts.
This report is backed up by the Texas Rangers who routinely step in and investigate significant crimes. The Rangers would speak right up if the Waco cops were putting out false information. I believe the Rangers!
You guys are losing the argument, no one believes the bandidos and similar scum are choirboys just having lunch at Twin Peaks to talk about Motorcycle SAFETY.
Here is relevant discussion of the founders caution about insuring that the Bill of Rights was not limited to those specifically addressed. Giving a limited number of powers to the Federal Government and reserving the rest to the States and the People. (i.e. the 9th Amendment)
I think this is specifically related to Waco because of the not specifically stated:
The Right of Free Association
The Right to the Presumption of Innocence
The Right to a Fair Trial
The Right to Privacy
See discussion here:
Yes, there are many bothersome things about this. I fully understand that to maintain our liberties often the only way is to defend those less than desirable elements.
I am certain that many non- gang bikers were caught up in this. Poor choice on their part. I learned this a long time ago when guys would go on liberty and come back robbed, beaten, stabbed, shot, with some weird disease, etc and I slowly noted that these things tended not to happen at the art museum or the Eiffel Tower or the Smithsonian or the library. There was a girl at the stable where I show recently complaining she can’t meet decent guys. She told me she goes to clubs and bars to meet them. No wonder.
My point is if you want to dress like a hoodlum and hang around them, whether you are one or not, or you try to meet guys in seedy places instead of school or church, some not very favorable things can happen.
No, the problem is that good people like you, and too many others, are confusing costumes with reality. Bad bikers do bad things like meth cooking, extortion, robbery, kidnapping, human slavery -- they're BAD.
Only a third of the 177 people arrested even had a criminal record, let alone something serious like extortion. It was a case of the hoodlums hanging around with the regular joes!
Hoods, even dumb-ass biker hoods, are not so stupid as to start this gang fracas in the clear presence of SIX marked police cars. Yes, those vehicles were there, "visible to people entering the Twin Peaks parking lot." You can look it up. It's in the police press release.
Do you really and truly buy into the "bad boy biker" stereotype via costuming so completely? These were mostly regular folks who love Harleys. Real criminals have records.
I have used the term as shorthand. I suspect that you do know what I and others are questioning when we use the term.
And I expect that if any of this comes to trial, defense attorneys will delve deeply in the pre-planning of the operations of May 17.
Or will you tell me that no pre-planning is done by police?
Clearly accuses the police of firing into a crowd. Is based on fact or fiction?
Making unwise choices should not be probable cause for arrest and confinement under a $1,000,000 bond.
This “Yeah, but....” strain of the discussion is most troublesome. When the rules start getting bent, they will eventually break. And when they break down they break for everyone.
And a h/t to Texas Fossil for bringing the 9th Amendment into the discussion.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/3300068/posts?page=51#51
I will respond to you going forward only if and when you acknowledge that you falsely accused me already of making stuff up.
Otherwise welcome yo my Ignore List.
I think there was probably planning on who would cover which areas of the restaurant if there was a fracas. I think the cops were probably stunned that the bikers (well at least one) decided to have a gunfight with so much police presence around the restaurant.
Could being “stunned” have resulted in making the decision to open fire as opposed to, say, firing tear gas?
Could being “stunned” have caused them to ignore the possibility of inaccurate shooting and hitting non-targeted individuals?
I am trying to keep my mind open on the actual operation. I have NOT referred to “police massacre.”
Bottom line, I am asking if the police response was appropriate and proportional to the danger of the situation. Did they choose the best option or could it have gone another way?
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