Posted on 06/06/2015 7:27:07 PM PDT by Morgana
Well, wait. I've actually wondered, owing to a couple of comments I've seen (not in this thread, but over the last few days)if there are some who were on the other end of it. In view of those thoughts, I can't make any judgment about yours; ultimately I have to admit that both could be the case, or not.
So I sincerely apologize to you; your post was fair and I was wrong to call you on it as I did.
As for me personally, I'll admit that I've never liked the Duggar parents and always found them creepy.
...”steps they took to secure the environment”...
Wouldn’t that in itself attest to the fact they possibly still saw a threat to their children? Their ‘behavior’ is highly suggestive that there is far more to this family then what’s being projected on TV that they say is and has happened.
Some have called them ‘weird’ because they really are out of mainstream... to the ‘extreme’.
I watched the video on marriage and family they put out. My gosh some of their restrictions were off the scale...and what’s more disturbing is how easily the older children simply fall in line “joyfully” accepting ‘there must be’ “strict” restrictions.
The fact their ‘wee children’ could identify courtship restrictions.....(which are out of their ability at those ages to comprehend)....attests to some heavy ‘indoctrination’ regarding relationships.
This family’s daily life seems as scripted as their TV program.....evidenced by their rules.
I've worked with cult abuse and these often have sexual issues part of their belief systems. There's markers in this family that border on cultish type behavior if not actual because there appears to be numerous restrictions centered on "preventing " intimacy in any of their relationships..both with family and with others......all in the name of having a "pure heart before God"...........
...that's very much 'legalistic' which will always stifle the freedom to grow and develope ones own personality, likes, dislikes and standards...and faith beliefs as God might move an individual.
Have you noted how frequently the family uses that phrase " a pure heart before God"...throughout their program and interviews? That is one of the keys on how and why this family operates as they do....the key is what do they 'believe' is a pure heart before God and meaning of..
BTW...they appear "creepy" because they are....and frankly they know they are.
You think it looks as if he's "practically on top of her" in the real video? Really?
I have not looked into the church they attend or practice on purpose.....though have seen some comments on the thread regarding it. So I haven't an opinion on what they teach...but if this family represents their church teachings then there's reason for people to be quite cautious if or not it's Christian rather possibly one that uses Christianity to enforce their own teachings.
“This family’s daily life seems as scripted as their TV program.....evidenced by their rules.”
I don’t presume to assume anything regarding your beliefs, but a cursory examination of the book of Galatians illustrates to me that this family is not a Christian family, at least as regards the true gospel according to Paul. Legalism = dead religion = hell bound.
The Duggar case never made it into the juvenile court system, or any court system, for that matter. The alleged crimes occurred in 2002 and 2003, but the police investigation did not occur until 2006. By that time, Josh Duggar was already an adult at age 18, so the state code covering the confidentiality of juvenile records would not apply to this case, legal experts have said.
As for this Duggard family....there seems to be an unhealthy “attraction” to having not only babies....but a focus to their children that this is a “central belief” that they should have them as soon as possible after marriage...and many of.
I get a disturbing sense the woman see themselves as baby producers which plays into their belief system.
I also caught the father mentioning it had ‘only’ been 30 days since their daughter was married. (when announcing she was pregnant) But he very quickly stifled his “alarm” for what that would suggest...that he indeed was suggesting. It's as if the father was ticking off the math in his head and it wasn't quite "measuring" right. And this guys all about "measuring" his family's behavior.
Control. It’s about control.
I agree that the Duggar family is a bit creepy and having made what is probably millions selling the family its not surprising the interest now. I about gagged though when I heard just a tiny bit before I turned off the TV from Whoopie Goldberg who has killed 6 of her babies lecturing the family.
But as far as the big families in my family tree, I was counting those who reached adulthood. Most recently, my grandmother who was born in 1888 was one of five out of eight who reached adulthood and then her older brother died of sepsis after having a tooth pulled. So four out of eight, born either in north Texas or Indian Territory. Hard life.
I personally, think it is simply ridiculous to believe that he went into a tiny little bedroom with multiple occupants, felt them up...and no one awakened.
I agree with that point. That's why the family's story adds up. Notice in the interview how Jessa described what he did - she called it "sly." The family says these were quick touches.
Have you ever come across someone who does that sort of thing sneakily - in a way so that you really can't be sure if the touch was accidental or on purpose? And, yes, sometimes the lecher is tricky enough that his hand can end up under your clothing (shuddering now in remembering that "kindly old gentleman" I once sat next to on the subway many years ago - Ewww!).
That's how this 14-15yo's behavior comes across in the police report, in the interviews of the girls, etc. At the time, he knew in his mind what he was thinking, but he knew how to get away with the behavior: pretend to be taking a blanket; pretend to be checking a hole in a dress; pretend to be scratching her back; etc.
IOW, the behavior most likely began with quick and sneaky touches, which would explain why the girls had no idea what was happening.
You constantly engage in the ultimate act of LEGALISM -- accusing someone that has repented (and others say has repented) of not being saved and condemning him or her of past sins. There is nothing is more legalistic than that.
And, if super duper legalism bothers you so much, why aren't you on a jihad about the Amish?
The daughters have been victimized by the media, by pro-homosexual liberals and by legalistic "Christians" like you.
Sarah Palin attended one of Gothard's conferences. Was she doing the same? Or are Gothard's teachings more mainstream than you're aware of?
That is debatable. But, what is true is that state law mandates that identities of juvenile victims be concealed if a police report is released and the victims identities were not.
....”Gothardism is nothing but super-repressive legalism which Gothard devised .....
Well Catherine I finally took some time to investigate the teachings and seminars Gothard produces.
It’s a cult and a dangerous one because their teachings redefine words and those words are taught in their indoctrination process..... That’s why outsiders could read his stuff and not understand why it was so twisted....
Redefining words = doublespeak.
This is also a technique which is being used with the seeker-sensitive/purpose-driven movement and in hyper-charismatic groups.......People join the group, thinking you are in agreement, but over time your definition changes to match the group’s definition.
The focus of teaching the “Umbrella of Authority” central to Gathard’s seminars and teachings spoke volumes... It effectively takes away your own responsibility for your behavior and places it in the hands of those who “God had placed in authority” over you..........so you’re taught if my authority tells me to sin, it was my spiritual authority who would be held accountable for that sin..... But if I disobeyed, then I would be held accountable for my disobedience.....additionally... “A church culture that promotes seeking mystical experience from God makes naive believers ripe for deception”....and Gothard’s teachings included much of that.
Duggard’s appear to parent for external/image...”Your family should “look like this”....so that the children seem to shine .... in effect performance based kids....which is legalism...and what we see in the interviews and in their programs.
Gottard’s manner of manipulation and teachings reflect much of the “Word of Faith” movement... which subliminally brings ‘cult oppression’ while masquerading ecumenical ‘religious posturing’. Again what we are seeing with and throughout their programs and interviews.
Further...During seminars Gottard tells people not to lend out the materials to people who wouldn’t “understand.”
As to the children....Parents are taught any questioning from children is ‘rebellion’...and presented as the sin of witchcraft. And the children are taught never to “give a bad report” to parents, so this prevents letting parents know problems that the kids might otherwise share. ..and because the teachings themselves require member families to fall in line with his teachings, this consistently conditions them to isolate themselves, both spiritually and physically, from the rest of the world.
See post 237....I have more to say about Gothard’s teachings...
We know Sarah was having difficulty with her daughter and might be so with others...Gothard seminars’s “were” considered stable an reliable at first...that changed quickly as Pastor’s took a closer look and began exposing them.
Sarah’s faith practice’s have always been questionable to me...not that she doesn’t believe...but that the things she is being taught and believe’s are less then biblical though she would not see so. I believe she could be swayed by Gothard for that reason...same with Hucklebee.
Gothard’s taking another hit since this Duggard thing surfaced...and their program...and it should be hit down....it’s a cult.
No...the family put themselves out there as “celebrities” and that will always bring one into the “fair game” field.
This family is following cult practices...if you look further you will see this. They show all the markers of such in what they practice.
(I work with cult abuse victims)
See page 13 of the police report.
The problem here is that the names, pronouns, and ages have been blacked out. At first, I also assumed one of the girls had run to her parents crying. But the girls and the parents say Josh was the one who went to them crying.
If you look it up, you'll find that his birthday is in March. So, he'd just turned 14. That implies that this behavior began when he was 13.
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