Posted on 04/12/2015 7:41:10 AM PDT by kanawa
Christians to Gays: We'll Accept Your Business and Donate Your Money to 'Traditional Pro-Family Lobby'
While gay activists are attacking Christian bakeries and wedding planners and filing lawsuits to put them out of business because of their religious beliefs, a Catholic priest has come up with a simple solution that, if adopted nationally, likely could end much of the gay and left-wing offensive in this realm.
Simply, accept all business from gays and tell them that the money will be donated to a traditional pro-family lobby or organization. And if your business is catering, for instance, show up at the gay wedding wearing a Cross necklace, a Bible-pin on your lapel, and a Bible verse embroidered on your uniform that expresses your morality, such as Mark 10:6-7, "But at the beginning of creation God made them male and female. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife."
As Fr. John Zuhlsdorf explains in his Apr. 2 blog post, "It’s time for everyone to calm down. We need a new approach. Think about this. When some homosexual couple comes to your Christian business for services at their immoral event, don’t panic. Go ahead and take their business!"
"Then explain what is going to happen next," says Fr. Z on his popular blog page.
"Tell them that the food and services will be just fine. And then inform them that all of the money that they pay for the services will be donated to a traditional pro-family lobby."
"If it is something like catering, where your employees have to be there to provide services, tell them that all your people will smile, be professional, and everyone of them will be wearing crucifixes and have the Holy Family embroidered on their uniforms," says Fr. Z.
"Then show them pictures of your uniforms," he writes. "When the truck pulls up, speakers will be playing Immaculate Mary. Show them the truck and play the music."
“Oh, you would be offended by that? I’m so sorry," notes Fr. Z. "You approached us because we are Christians. Right? We are happy to provide services for you and we are grateful that you chose to come to our Christian catering business. We just want to be of help.”
The priest continued, "Then tell them that you will take out an ad in the paper to let everyone know what you did with their money, thanking them by name for their business so that you could make the contribution."
"I suspect this approach, if adopted far and wide, would put an end to attacks on Christian businesses," said Fr. Z.
Fr. John Zuhlsdorf is a Catholic priest of the diocese of Velletri-Segni, which is a diocese in Italy close to Rome, headed by Bishop Vincenzo Apicella. Fr. Zuhlsdorf was ordained a priest by St. Pope John Paul II in 1991.
Fr. Zuhlsdorf currently resides in Madison, Wisc., where he serves as president of the Tridentine Mass Society of the Diocese of Madison, under Bishop Robert C. Morlino.
If so, then there’s way too much acceptance of it. Just like there has been 42 years of acceptance of Roe v. Wade.
It’s not giving in to tyranny.
One does NOT have to participate in a gay wedding.
But look at the cases and how and where the shop owners are right and where they are wrong.
Moral authority is not as random as americans hope it is.
One cannot practice a lifestyle that is not religious and then claim religious objection
Freedom is not free.
Even Reagan said it has to be won in every generation.
“Actually, since the bakers will be donating all the money (even the product costs and labor), it doesn’t look like it’s about mammon.”
So a business would be losing money on each transaction? I don’t know what the profit margin is on businesses like that, but if a shop was targeted how long would it take to put it out of business?
How is it not giving in to tyranny?
I see no case where the shop owners are wrong. Whatsoever.
And that’s aside from the bad reputation Father Z. seems to have cultivated among many conservative Catholics.
Back somewhere in my posting history I have posts putting forth this same idea of assigning the proceeds of a homosexual wedding cake to promoting traditional marriage.
I think that the idea is subject to discrimination laws, because homosexual cakes are singled out. Don’t know, it’s a legal question, and I’m not an attorney.
The easy workaround, however, is to donate a fixed amount from all wedding cakes to those causes.
Here is to kicker; Encourage matching funds from non-business sources, friends, churches, customers for cakes of their choosing.
Business contributes $10 per cake (let’s say), others match it at 10:1, or some amount of their own choosing.
Suddenly, thousands of dollars are raised, the community is involved, and, as nearly as I can determine, no laws are broken.
Perhaps you misunderstand the situation in the states where the legal persecution of Christians is already taking place. For instance, in Washington state, the young married couple who owned Sweet Cakes by Melissa have been ordered to pay $150,000 in damages to the lesbians they offended by not wanting to do their cake, and the state Human Rights Commission has further ordered them to take re-education instruction about tolerance to gblt's. They have five children to support and have been driven out of their business by hate mail and death threats. The state also prevented them from receiving crowdfunding support. So, you see, they did stand up and these injustices are what happened to them.
I'm not saying Christians shouldn't stand up. I am saying Christians need to be "wise as serpents" about how they handle these matters, especially if they need to protect their children, in those states where the power of government is being used to punish and humiliate and bankrupt Christians for being Christians.
This would not work, because Christians have already tried this as test cases and have ended up being sued for emotional distress and discrimination. And the financial awards to the offended GLBT's are huge and punitive.
Follow the story.
The gays are taking this to court.
That’s where we are now, so that’s where the discussion is.
Now it is in court.
in court, it will get specific, exploratory, disclosing and logic will take over.
That’s way before any activist judge takes it on.
You say “,Homosexuality is an abomination; Leviticus says that”
of course.
In court, when the bible is brought up, it seems to me, logically, it will go right into questioning what the bible has to do with the rest of one’s life.
Likewise, if one claims conscientious objection, due to religion, one will be questioned how strictly they follow the religion in other aspects of life.
I agree. It is a good idea to try, but there are definitely risks involved. I would like to see the pro-life, pro-family legal foundations develop comprehensive opinions on these matters, to give people the tools to work with.
One way businesses have traditionally handled sticky matters is to put a lot of small legalistic boilerplate printed on the back of the purchase order contract in tiny gray type. Few people ever read these contracts before signing on the front. When I had a business, there is where I put the news that by signing, the customer agrees that overdue invoices will be subject to 1-1/2% per month surcharges, and that the customer agrees to indeminfy my business against lawsuits for this or for that, etc.
So in states where catering to gays becomes mandatory, the priest's approach could be carried out rather seamlessly by this boilerplate contract method, and by posting a sign in the store advertising that "A percentage of our profits will be donated to the XYZ Foundation for the Preservation of the Traditional Family". As long as the sign does not single out which customers' profits would be donated...
Beware of men, for they will deliver you over to courts and flog you in their synagogues, / and you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them and the Gentiles.So those with wisdom as serpents have to be ready for such trials; and indeed stand up.
— Matthew 10:17-18, ESV
“I see no case where the shop owners are wrong. Whatsoever.”
Are you a duly elected judge? Because the gays have taken this to court.
Activism aside, winning cases of religious objection, such as that of Hobby Lobby and the active case of Sisters of the Poor, are what you might want to follow.
But commerce has protective laws.
That tactic is exactly what is getting these bakers, florists and photograpers not only sued and harshly penalized, but also subjected to terroristic threats that the authorities refuse to handle or that there is no law in place to correct, such as flash mob protests by GLBTs outside their place of business and death threats by anonymous tweets or phone. If a small business owner has children, this is truly torture. If there are ways to withstand without losing one's livelihood entirely and putting one's children at risk, there is no harm in trying to find those ways, as this thread is trying to do.
Should past Christians have attempted to avoid being torn apart by lions, crucified, burned at the stake or subjected to the ducking stool? I understand the necessity for martyrdom in many cases; however, if some had not found ways to avoid persecution while remaining true to their faith, Christianity would not have survived.
Thanks GR. Fortunately I am blessed to be part of the “high end” cake business. I do mostly wedding cakes, so don’t have the writing issue, and the toppers are always part of my artwork, so don’t have bride and groom (or groom and groom) ugly topper issues. I also won’t do “over the hill”, “anatomical”, “zombie” or other ugly cakes. It’s just not in my brain to even pull it off.
My cakes are considered “artwork” rather than a commodity, like a cake from Kroger. I guess since I am called an “artist” I get more leeway on how the cake looks. ( I know, it all sounds arrogant, prideful and silly... but the wedding business is full of nonsense. I just go with the flow and take none of it seriously)
The gay wedding issue has been a very real threat to us though. Mr G and I are now very comfortable with how our position has crystalized. I guess I will just have to work with whatever sinner walks through my door. Gee.... I walk through that door!
If you make it to Tennessee, c’mon over. I’ll let you try several kinds of cake.
I’m familiar with the Sweet Cakes case. My answer? Don’t pay. Don’t pay the fines, don’t pay the penalties, don’t attend the brainwashing classes. If the court can turn that into a criminal matter and put you in jail, OK. Then they have to support your family — and you — while you’re serving time. When you get out, go right back to what you were doing, meanwhile drawing welfare, food stamps, obamacare, obamaphone, and every other government assistance you can get.
Make punishing you so costly it will drain the system of resources. Meanwhile, you’re no worse off than you were when the homofascists invaded your business.
Does the status as a judge make one right and unimpeachable in all decisions? Exalting the “wisdom of this world” is folly.
How many times has the Bible spoken of judges that pervert the law? Leviticus 19:15 and Deuteronomy 1:17/16:19 say the same thing and are the beginning of same; it was for the cause of stemming said perversion that the Founding Fathers did what they did.
Name one of these cases that the shipowner lost due to an activist judge then we’ll be having a logical conversation
I believe it is an idea worth considering. As much as “gay” marriage disgusts me, some overlook the Scriptures that lump homosexuality with adulterers, fornicators, and drunkards. They are all sin! However, I’m not in favor of the Mary thing - she can’t save anyone - it is Jesus they need to promote And, yes, this could be an opportunity to witness to these lost souls.
Some people are born to be fighters and soldiers. Some are not, and putting them on the field of confrontational battle may get everyone else in their company slaughtered due to their incompetence.
1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[d]? Do all interpret? 31 Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.
There are many gifts, and there are many ways to make best use of one's God-given gifts. God wanted us to work together and not be self-sufficient; therefore we are all endowed with a differenct combination of strengths and vulnerabilities, so that we will call on one another to maintain the universal church. Not everyone is required to act as the Founders acted in order to have the rights guaranteed in the Bill of Rights to every American. And likewise, there may be many ways for individual artisans to work with gay people and still observe their own religion.
It's clear that in states where artisans are compelled to accept gay wedding business, their constitutional rights are being abrogated. But it will take more than one tiny business owner at a time to fight this leviathan, in view that our government has now become so overweening that we all laid down and died and swallowed the incredible heist and tax burden that is Obamacare. Many have tried to turn back the horror that is Roe v. Wade. Many have tried to keep marxist evil out of the schools. So far, the lions have been eating the Christians over and over. The leftists are the default condition of humanity without a clear understanding of God. Our nation is sliding down that slope with increasing rapidity. Is a gay wedding cake the issue that will turn it all around, if only each baker refuses and willingly sacrifices his or her livelihood, or would it be just throwing pearls before swine and wasting one's talents?
Obviously, we are working with a huge deficit in understanding the nature of freedom among the common people, brought about by three generations of marxism in the schools. The left carefully planned to take over and have done so. There will be many Christians beheaded by ISIS until God arranges their justice. Should all middle eastern Chrisitans line up and volunteer for the slaughter? Do we not often question what would have happened to the Jews of Germany and Poland if their communities had been armed and they had resisted? Likewise there will be many American Christians legally crucified until God arranges their justice.
The outworking of that justice will take many down and lift others up; yet in the life to come, many who were last will be first, and first last. Those "beheaded for their faith" will live and reign with Christ in the world to come (Rev. 20:4).
It's not for other Christians to call those who strive to find ways to work under these unjust laws moral cowards.
You are just plain incorrect on this point insofar as the civil law that is being used to persecute Christians. Quite obviously, states have been using state anti-discrimination laws to make these cases stick.
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