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Lumber Liquidators shares are crashing after a damning '60 Minutes' report
Business Insider ^ | 03/02/2015 | Myles Udland

Posted on 03/02/2015 9:34:30 AM PST by SeekAndFind

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To: SZonian

You can buy brand-new unlocked, no-contract iPhones directly from Apple. iPhone 4 8GB is $549 (plus tax) iPhone 4S 16GB is $649 (plus tax) iPhone 4S 32GB is $749 (plus tax) iPhone 4S 64GB is $849 (plus tax)


61 posted on 03/02/2015 11:08:18 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va
Bull crap.

The fact that Karl Marx liked free trade for his own reasons doesn't mean that Keynes and Friedman were wrong. Marx was wrong about a lot of things. If he was wrong about the ultimate victory of Marxism, why would anyone assume that he is right about free trade being an asset to his cause?

62 posted on 03/02/2015 11:10:10 AM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: central_va
The amount of labor per phone is about 16 dollars. if made in the USA it would be 4x times that or 64 dollars. That is 64 dollars on a 800 dollar phone.

Labor cost per unit is hardly the only factor behind Apple's move overseas. Give this NYTimes article a read and see if anything rings true.

63 posted on 03/02/2015 11:12:28 AM PST by RightOnTheBorder
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To: Zhang Fei; central_va
If he was wrong about the ultimate victory of Marxism, why would anyone assume that he is right about free trade being an asset to his cause?

Really??

Have you looked around as of late to what YOUR government has turned into?
64 posted on 03/02/2015 11:14:42 AM PST by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: DoodleDawg
Wasn’t there a similar stink a couple of years ago concerning formaldehyde in Chinese-made drywall?

Yes. You re correct. The chicoms must be drowning in formaldehyde.

65 posted on 03/02/2015 11:14:52 AM PST by The Sons of Liberty (Some say I hate 0bama; "HATE" is a strong word, but in this case NOT STRONG ENOUGH!!)
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To: SeekAndFind
Formaldehyde is for baby formula and dog food. Not flooring. This is China for cryin' outloud. And as for the trustworthiness of news magazines. This image may refresh some memories...


66 posted on 03/02/2015 11:16:19 AM PST by Organic Panic
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To: central_va
Idiots line up in the rain to buy the latest Apple phone.

You may not believe this but there are Idiots who look for every opportunity to call Apple product users idiots.

67 posted on 03/02/2015 11:16:53 AM PST by itsahoot (55 years a republican-Now Independent. Will write in Sarah Palin, no matter who runs. RIH-GOP)
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To: SeekAndFind
First of all Laminate flooring is not good stuff no matter how it is made. Not compared to actual wood or ceramic or porcelain tile or quarry tile etc.

It is cheap flooring made cheaply.

But if you are the type that wants to change your floors constantly to redecorate then yeah it will work. But it is not made for the long haul.

And building materials made in China is a game of craps at best.

68 posted on 03/02/2015 11:17:23 AM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: Organic Panic

Jimmy Wah: "Ba Muy Ba beer best beer in Vietnam."
Garlick: "Ba Muy Ba beer only beer in Vietnam."
Jimmy Wah: "Try it. Oh, what happened?"
Cronauer: "What happened?"
Jimmy Wah: "Formaldehyde. We put in just a touch of formaldehyde for flavor. Some people get sick, yeah. So if you have to be rushed to a holpital, then when you return, I give you a free salad."
Cronauer: "Well, that seams fair. It really does."
Garlick: "You'll get used to it."
Cronauer: "Maybe."

69 posted on 03/02/2015 11:21:40 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: The Cajun
"The key word here is "laminate", also know as cheap crap in most wood applications. "

Yep. Been in the flooring business since the mid 80s. There is no high quality laminate flooring, only high priced laminate flooring. It is all cheaply made stuff.

70 posted on 03/02/2015 11:24:02 AM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: LibertyOh

This whole story seemed suspect from the beginning...


71 posted on 03/02/2015 11:28:44 AM PST by gwgn02
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To: central_va

The Janka Hardness Scale ratings:

Popular 300

Black Cherry 950

Burmese Teak 1050

Red Oak 1290

White Oak 1360

Hickory(the hardest North American Species) 1850

Brazilian Cherry(Jatoba) 2850

African Ebony 3250

Cumaru 3540

IPE 3600

This means that IPE is roughly twice as dense(hard) as Hickory and three times as hard as Red Oak. IPE and Cumaru are very difficult to work with, even with carbide tipped blades and pneumatic equipment. I distinctly remember breaking off Stainless Steel deck screws even after predrilling the holes when I last worked with IPE. The next time I used PVC.


72 posted on 03/02/2015 11:29:58 AM PST by woodbutcher1963
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To: Mad Dawgg

I have genuine hardwood floors. They need refinishing but you make it sound like this real floor is better than laminate. Laminates never need refinishing right?


73 posted on 03/02/2015 11:32:48 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: woodbutcher1963

> FYI, Cumaru is the second hardest/densest species of wood,
> commercially manufactured on the planet.

Heh. The guys that installed it were burning out saw blades. It was making sparks as they cut it. It’s as if they were cutting petrified wood.

But it is a beautiful floor. We had it installed diagonally. For some reason, when were trying to determine the best orientation, laying it out straight in either direction had a “train station” look.

The workmen weren’t happy when we told them we wanted it diagonal, but they were really happy with the results and took photos of it for their portfolios. :)


74 posted on 03/02/2015 11:35:59 AM PST by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it)
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To: Mad Dawgg

Unfortunately, IF you want to put wood over radiant floor heating, you have to put down laminate. If not, the manufacturer will not warrantee the floor. You can not put 3/4” solid wood over radiant heat. That is the only time I would ever use laminate. As you mentioned, generally laminate is crapola. You really do get what you pay for.


75 posted on 03/02/2015 11:36:40 AM PST by woodbutcher1963
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To: Westbrook

It is a lot more work and waste to lay it diagonally. Same thing when laying tile.


76 posted on 03/02/2015 11:51:14 AM PST by woodbutcher1963
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To: SeekAndFind

My Mom saw the report last night and of course had a major freak out. Im in California so Lumber Liquidators are HUGE here..we have wood flooring in our house, my sister has laminate in her house(Bedroom, living room, etc) she did not get it from Lumber Liquidators but with many wood stores, they often buy from each other so who knows where the place she got it from got their flooring..My sister is about to have a baby so of course my Mom worries what kind of cancer causing chemicals she might be exposing the baby to


77 posted on 03/02/2015 11:52:47 AM PST by Sarah Barracuda
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To: central_va
Wow you are really aren’t trying are you? Free trade tears down the social order so communists can take over. Once the Commies take over then free trade ends, their goal achieved.

We've had free trade for the past 80 years, with US tariffs being systematically lower than comparable industrialized nations and the republic still stands. American companies continue to be at the forefront of innovation and quality, to the point that they occupy the topmost ranks of the most profitable companies in the world. KFC, not some Chinese company, is the largest restaurant chain in China. Bottom line is that these protectionist talking points don't hold much water. To be competitive, a company not only has to come up with new things, it's got to hold the line on costs so that it can survive periods when its products are not up to snuff relative to the competition's. This is why all American companies have moved assembly work overseas, whether it's China, India or some other country. Because the competition, whether in Europe or Japan (and Korea), has done the same.

Detroit's Big 3 have kept assembly work stateside, and the result of the UAW's obscene pay scales and work rules is systematically lower reliability ratings than their Japanese counterparts. Because the cost difference has to be paid for, and Detroit has done that by chintzing out on parts specifications, such that the original parts on Japanese cars are still going strong even after their American equivalents have had a second generation of replacement parts bolted on (after the original and the first generation of replacement parts were replaced).

78 posted on 03/02/2015 12:00:47 PM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: central_va

Laminates are just plywood where the top veneer is the appearance wood you see. The bottom veneers are other wood species. They have the benefit that they do not shrink and swell like real 3/4” thick wood. You may be able to sand a laminate floor once and refinish it. However, it is probably cheaper just to tear it up and replace it.

What has changed in wood flooring in the last 10-15 years is the introduction of Aluminum Oxide into the polyurethane finish coating. Aluminum Oxide is the second hardest material used today. Second only to diamonds. They make most sand paper with aluminum oxide grit. This has led manufactures to offer 50 year or lifetime warranties on the finish. With some of the denser woods, they will not dent if walked on with stiletto heals. This is why more people are putting wood floors in places in your home where in the past you would only put down tile or stone.


79 posted on 03/02/2015 12:01:58 PM PST by woodbutcher1963
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To: central_va
"I have genuine hardwood floors. They need refinishing but you make it sound like this real floor is better than laminate. Laminates never need refinishing right?"

More precisely you really cant refinish laminate flooring. Real wood floors you put varnish or lacquer or polyurethane to "finish" the floor. Laminate is more of chemically made product. Most of it is is made of fiber board with a laminated wood finish on top and then a sealer finish which is usually made of resin. Now the thing to understand is the resin can be made really good and it can take a lot of punishment BUT that is not the problem.

There is an old saw in the flooring world that goes basically "A floor is only as good as what is underneath it."

The resins they use are really good on the surface. BUT the fiber board underneath the resin layer and the wood pattern, is not really sealed it just has lots of resin mixed in it and is water "Resistant" not water proof.

Look up the term delamination.

They will all do it and if they get very wet (soaked as in pipe leaks or really big spills) they will fall apart fairly quickly. First they will pucker on the edges and then they will further deteriorate. And once the puckering starts any time even a bit of water gets in those puckers it will further delaminate the bonds.

And eventually laminate will draw moisture into the fiberboard layer no matter how good the resin on top is.

Your real wood floor can get wet. It will swell and hoove-up BUT unless it is totally cracked in the process it will usually shrink back down once you dry it out and can be refinished and look like a million bucks again. There is no fixing laminate once the bonds of the layers are broken, you must replace it once it starts delaminating.

80 posted on 03/02/2015 12:02:38 PM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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