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Apple Has 93% of Mobile Profits
Barron's ^ | February 9, 2015, 9:48 A.M. ET | Tiernan Ray

Posted on 02/09/2015 9:57:34 AM PST by ctdonath2

Canaccord Genuity’s Mike Walkley this morning ... writes that his assessment of vendor data in smartphones suggests, whose shares he rates a Buy, captured 93% of industry profits in Q4 ... while Samsung Electronics has a minority of profit and all others operate at no profit or at a negative margin

(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.barrons.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: apple
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To: Swordmaker; Mad Dawgg

Yeah, you’re right, as it’s so obvious that he’s offended at your education. That’s what little people like him do.

And in regards to him thinking that everyone in the overall market is supposed to be like him and go for used stuff, buy cheap product (i.e., low value product), things that don’t work as well as better product - you’re right. He thinks that the overall market should be like him ... and if not “they’ve all been tricked”! ... LOL ...

Some people just don’t deserve to live in a modern technological society with all its benefits ... they belong in the 1850s or thereabouts ... :-) ...


261 posted on 02/11/2015 2:32:24 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler; Swordmaker
Ahh yes you can always count on the Sparky Applebots to revert to ad hominem when bested.
262 posted on 02/11/2015 2:36:02 PM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: TexasGator; Swordmaker; Star Traveler
Sparky:“Fine, I’ll take you up on that. How are YOU going to handle the balance of the payments”

Tex:"You mean the payments that you left out in your original analysis on the cost of your iPhones?"

This is why I love using Socratic Dialog on the Sparkys. All you need do is keep them talking and ask the right questions and they end up disproving their own premise. then you get the howling ad hominem from them when the realize they got played...

Nice coup de gras Tex!

I knew Sparky would take the bait!

Oh and Sparky that would be QED once again!

263 posted on 02/11/2015 2:44:14 PM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: Mad Dawgg; Swordmaker

Just returning them, as y’all “start” with it ... :-) ...


264 posted on 02/11/2015 2:53:39 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler; TexasGator
"Just returning them, as y’all “start” with it"

See Again this is why I just love Socratic Dialog with the Sparkys they just up and post something that is so easily disproved.

Sparky one started with Calling me and Idiot in post 134. And you start in with calling me an Idiot in 164 YET I hadn't even replied to you in the thread as of yet.

here is a hint f you are going to engage in discourse on the internet. Don't say you aren't the one who is first to go to ad hominem when the exact opposite is true and easily verifiable by scrolling up. It make you look like an...

wait for it...

wait for it...

Wait for it...

idiot!

hahaha we having fun yet Sparky?

265 posted on 02/11/2015 3:16:40 PM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: TexasGator
No. We are commenting that you, the educated economist, did not consider this cost when you gave your costs of owning a cell phone.

No, tex, I DISCOUNTED it as an irrelevancy in the equation as for our discussion of Smartphones on carriers, that charge is the same regardless of the smartphone chosen. It therefore becomes mere irrelevant NOISE in the discussion, part of the smartphone environment in which all of the phones must operate, and NOT a differentiator.

If one chooses to own a smartphone, one must pay for the monthly service that accompanies the use of that phone. That's the environment one exists in with the phone. With any particular carrier, there is no difference in monthly cost of that environment between smartphone A and smartphone B. Ergo, it is an irrelevancy.

Bringing it up in this discussion is a mere red herring.

266 posted on 02/11/2015 3:26:50 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users contnue...)
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To: Mad Dawgg; Swordmaker

It starts right at the beginning of the thread, which you can see just as easily as anyone ... and it always starts up like that with all the Apple-haters. For some reason they’re always so obsessive that they sit and just WAIT for an Apple thread to appear and see how fast they can get theirs in ... LOL ...

Need a clue ... well, it’s two,within the first 20 ...


267 posted on 02/11/2015 3:30:36 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler
Sparky, I didn't post in the first twenty posts. You do understand that right?
268 posted on 02/11/2015 3:33:28 PM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: Mad Dawgg; Swordmaker

Apple-haters switch off and take turns ... one gets it one time and the other gets it another time. All the Apple haters “stand watch” for those Apple threads, and whoever is “on watch” at the time gets there first ... LOL ...

All you Apple-haters are made out of one cloth.


269 posted on 02/11/2015 3:39:50 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Swordmaker; TexasGator
If one chooses to own a smartphone, one must pay for the monthly service that accompanies the use of that phone.

Again so easily disproved.

I can buy a smartphone right now with no contract. I don't have to pay a contract, to own it. Including the 600 plus iPhone.

BUT in your example of paying an upfront cost of x number of dollars for a smartphone then paying out a contract you must pay the entire contract until you own it outright. Because you must satisfy the terms of the contract to end the payments. And thus it is part of the cost of ownership.

270 posted on 02/11/2015 3:41:37 PM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: Star Traveler

I think I see the problem now, you are confused on what ad homienm means. I would look it up if I were you.


271 posted on 02/11/2015 3:43:06 PM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: Mad Dawgg; Star Traveler; PA Engineer; ctdonath2; aMorePerfectUnion; itsahoot
We have several around the house AND they can hook up to our internet media system. See you can still watch TV on them. If of course you are smart enough to use them. Maybe if you get someone who is smarter than your average economics degree holder to show you how. Check the AV club at your local Jr. High. hahahah

Of course you do. . . junkville USA. I know how to use an Analog TV. . . but I don't WANT to. I have gotten to a time in life when I appreciate the finer things in life. I don't intend to die surrounded by junk. You like to brag about all your bargains. I like good bargains too. I don't buy my Apple computers retail. I buy them from Apple's refurb store. However, I know value, which you still seem to avoid understanding except in guitars. There is hope for you.

So you watch a high-quality digital image on a low-quality display. Whoopp-de-do. That's what we've been talking about. The effort you have to go through to make something work that is not intended for what you are using it for. Jumping through hoops to get a sub-optimal result, just so you can brag about a bargain basement experience. Sorry. Not for me. I prefer quality and good workmanship. I produce it in my work and I expect it from others. I actually have a good quality life and STILL save money and have plenty of it. . . but you cannot understand that in your scrimp and save lifestyle. Good luck with that.

Again, another sign you pay no attention to what has been posted. I have told you many times that I own a business in the technical end of things. . . and you have the gall to tell me I would not know how to do that? You are oblivious. . . and rude. . . and insulting. Your purpose here is to throw feces against the wall and make things as unpleasant as possible. Frankly, I doubt the local High School AV club would now have a clue about analog TV. If they do, the school is teaching them the wrong things.

272 posted on 02/11/2015 3:47:37 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users contnue...)
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To: TexasGator
No response from Swordmaker. Maybe he missed my post.

I saw no point in discussing it with you. . . you bought a phone that was release in 2011 and want to know why a far better phone released in late 2014 with a hell or lot better technology would be an improvement would be a better choice? Pointless.

273 posted on 02/11/2015 3:53:12 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users contnue...)
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To: Swordmaker

“I saw no point in discussing it with you. . . you bought a phone that was release in 2011 and want to know why a far better phone released in late 2014 with a hell or lot better technology would be an improvement would be a better choice? Pointless.”

Pointless to upgrade since I see no real advantages nor do you provide any.


274 posted on 02/11/2015 3:56:30 PM PST by TexasGator
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To: Swordmaker

“No, tex, I DISCOUNTED it as an irrelevancy in the equation as for our discussion of Smartphones on carriers, that charge is the same regardless of the smartphone chosen. “

Your post was NOT about smartphones on carriers. It was about your actual costs and you did not include the costs you were paying via the subsidized account.

Please respond to the issue being discussed.


275 posted on 02/11/2015 3:58:44 PM PST by TexasGator
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To: Swordmaker
"So you watch a high-quality digital image on a low-quality display. Whoopp-de-do."

Mostly they are setup for all my old gaming systems I got really cheap at yard sales and such. I just also hooked them up to the internet system as well. When my daughter was younger all her friends would run straight to the Old Ataris and Nintendos and Sega Genesis play all night. I still try my luck every once in awhile at Zelda and Missile Command And Sonic The Hedgehog...

So your whole rant on suboptimal etc. is a bit amusing as I knew it would be. I have each game console hooked to a different analog TV like the ones they were designed to work with and the kids Still love it they are just not around as much. They are planning a gaming party here when they are on Spring Break.

276 posted on 02/11/2015 4:01:53 PM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: TexasGator
LOL. You are really jumping the shark with that. And you claim to be an educated economist. Basic law of economics. People don’t pay more for less.

I am reporting to everyone here exactly what happens. People can sell their used iPhones for more than the cost of initiating a new contract with the latest new iPhone. . . and often for as much as twice that downpayment cost. That is REALITY. I really don't care why those people are paying that price to buy my old phone, I am happy to get it to help me initiate my next one. It lowers my Total Cost of Ownership for the previous phone.

I see we have another economic ignoramus. The cost of the smartphone monthly contract is irrelevant to this discussion because that would be paid for any smartphone.

277 posted on 02/11/2015 4:17:11 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users contnue...)
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To: TexasGator
“The 6Plus framerates are HALF that of the 5S!”

In what world? You are delusional. I think you have that backwards, their new Samsung Note 4, which is supposed to be faster than the Galaxy 5S is pathetic compared to the iPhone 6 line (The charts in this article include the geek bench marks for your Galaxy 5S, and it is obvious you don't know what you are talking about) It also explains why:

Samsung Galaxy Note 4 delivers poor graphics performance vs. Apple iPhone 6 Plus
By Daniel Eran Dilger
Saturday, October 04, 2014, 02:49 pm PT (05:49 pm ET)

While boasting an "Octa Core" Application Processor option and an extremely high resolution display, Samsung's new Galaxy Note 4 falls flat in running GPU intensive apps and games—particularly in comparison to Apple's iPhone 6 Plus.


iPhone 6 Plus vs Galaxy Note 4

The first benchmarks showing off the actual performance users will get from the new Note 4 highlights that Samsung appears to be making the wrong engineering choices, and that the conventional wisdom about Samsung's advantages in operating its own chip design and fab are also wrong.

Bad Engineering Choices

Samsung has pushed screen technology ahead of its own processor capabilities, resulting in extremely poor performance in high definition.

In an apparent effort to win the "spec war," Samsung began aggressively cranking up device resolutions on its most expensive premium flagships after Steve Jobs demonstrated iPhone 4's Retina Display back in 2010. Prior to that, Samsung was internally focused on smaller devices, not larger, higher resolution displays.

In contrast, Apple has only changed its flagship iPhone resolutions every two years since, making iPhone 5 taller and the new iPhone 6 & 6 Plus both larger and more pixel dense in the move to "Retina HD" displays.

The most obvious result has been that iOS app developers have had a much easier time managing the changes in resolution, so they can focus on new apps and features rather than testing across a broad range of configurations. That's apparent in the fact that nearly all new apps and games appear for iOS first, and only arrive on Android later after they've proven to be broadly popular in the App Store.

However, there's also another problem: by pushing resolution numbers so fast (and without any regard for whether having more pixels actually makes a discernible, qualitative difference), Samsung has pushed screen technology ahead of its own processor capabilities, resulting in extremely poor performance in high definition.

Earlier, AppleInsider noted that Apple's own leap to a Retina HD 1080p screen on iPhone 6 Plus resulted in graphics that were in some cases slower at their native resolution than last year's iPhone 5s: rendering a challenging OpenGL ES 3.0 3D scene dropped frame rates from 24.4 to 19 fps. Samsung's new Exynos-powered Note 4 drops down to 10.5 fps—almost half that of iPhone 6 Plus— in the same test.

Samsung's own even-higher resolution Note 4 (or equally high resolution Galaxy S5 flagship) both turn in benchmarks far lower than Apple's new 6 Plus—and less than half that of last year's iPhone 5s. In terms of fps, the latest benchmarks show that Samsung's new Exynos-powered Note 4 drops down to 10.5 fps—almost half that of iPhone 6 Plus— in the same test.

Looking at the fairly decent, low level theoretical scores of the GPUs Samsung uses (combined with much higher clock rates and more RAM), it appears that the company's devotion to extremely high resolution numbers is a spec list checkmark (rather than a real feature that benefits users) and is a primary contributing reason for poor real life scores in rendering 3D OpenGL scenes.

In other words, the chips Samsung is choosing to use could theoretically match Apple's latest iPhones if they were not also driving tons of additional pixels that contribute little to no benefit to users. Think of it as a reasonably powerful engine installed into a monster truck with massive wheels it can barely turn.

Samsung itself has been marketing Note 4 to less sophisticated buyers as a "for the colorful" device along the lines of Apple's iPhone 5c ads, in a series of "Love Notes" spots.

Love Notes Samsung Ad.

However, even for a consumer device, Samsung appears to have picked the wrong screen resolution for Note 4, given the horsepower of its own Exynos 5 Octa Core Application Processor, or even Qualcomm's Snapdragon 805, which Samsung will use in most international markets.

Of course, at the same time there are also a variety of other Android devices with the same 1080p resolution as iPhone 6 Plus, and they don't score as well either. That's a fact we earlier blamed on Google's Android, particularly its shoddy implementation of OpenGL that squanders the capabilities of faster chips with more cores and more available RAM.

Samsung falling behind in Application Processors

Samsung is still scrambling to bring its Note 4 to market in the wake of iPhone 6 Plus, but initial GPU details of the Note 4 are already available on Kishonti Informatics' GFXBench website.

What they show is not just an underpowered leap to an "even-higher resolution" screen; they also show that Samsung is continuing to license basic ARM Mali graphics for use in the Exynos Application Processors it is putting into its own premium devices despite expecting the same price from consumers as Apple's iPhones, but for a less powerful, less responsive device.

At the same time, Samsung is marketing its Eyxnos 5 chip as "Octa Core," as if the number of cores are a meaningful frame of reference in terms of power or capacity. The CPU (also a stock ARM design) is only intended to use four cores at a time; there are two sets of cores, four that run at top power, and four baby cores that coast along very efficiently when the device is in standby. Running all eight doesn't even make sense.

Specifically, the Note 4's Exynos 5433 is an ARM "big.LITTLE" design that pairs together sets of four A15 and four A7 cores, each pair designed to work at different clock speeds. Calling Samsung's Exynos "8 core" is like calling a truck "4 wheel drive" when it can effectively only power two wheels at once.

In contrast, both Apple and Qualcomm have purposely avoided ARM's stock big.LITTLE architecture in their own Cyclone A7/A8 or Krait Snapdragon core designs, both of which use fewer cores and more advanced core management to deliver better performance at lower power consumption than the stock ARM technology that Samsung is using.

The Y of Exynos

However, the reason Samsung develops its own Exynos Application Processors is so it can eventually replace Qualcomm; currently that's not possible because Qualcomm holds patents on CDMA, LTE and other advanced carrier technology.

Both Apple and Samsung use Qualcomm's baseband chips to handle wireless modem features while their own proprietary Ax or Exynos Application Processors run the rest of the phone or tablet. This creates a smoke and mirrors marketing charade for Samsung to trumpet features of its "Octa core" Galaxy phones while actually shipping something completely different

At some point, Samsung (and likely Apple, too) will want to integrate their own baseband modems into their own Application Processors rather than paying Qualcomm for a separate chip, but that's currently not feasible. Samsung's Exynos is experimenting with Qualcomm-competing designs in limited markets, both in products that either use Intel's LTE baseband chips or Samsung's own modem-integrated packages.

This fragment of the market (excluding most major markets in North America, Japan, Korea and Japan) is what Samsung addresses with its Exyno-powered Galaxy devices, with the rest of the world getting the same brands of Galaxy devices powered by Qualcomm Snapdragon chips. This creates a smoke and mirrors marketing charade for Samsung to trumpet features of its "Octa core" Galaxy phones while actually shipping something completely different.

Read Samsung's marketing doublespeak press release that Shara Tibken loosely edited for CNET and you get a sense of how strategically perfect this sort of muddled, non-specific mess of billowing specifications works to confuse rank and file tech journalists incapable of critical review.

On the other hand, when Samsung shipped defective Exynos Galaxy S4 devices last summer with what AnandTech described as "a broken implementation of the CCI-400 coherent bus interface" with "implications [that] are serious from a power consumption (and performance) standpoint," the news was rarely reported, in part because "neither ARM nor Samsung LSI will talk about the bug publicly, and Samsung didn't fess up to the problem at first either - leaving end users to discover it on their own."

Galaxy S4 chip cost

Last summer, iSuppli reported (above) that Samsung's Galaxy S4 equipped with its own Exynos 5 Octa was substantially more expensive than the North American version of the same phone shipping with a Qualcomm Snapdragon (and both were estimated to be more expensive than iPhone 5).

Samsung's problems with defective Exynos designs (despite using off the shelf ARM technology), paired with chips that are not only more expensive to build but also lack the economies of scale that Apple's A7 and A8 have enjoyed—across tens of millions of iPhones and iPads—makes it easy to understand not only why Apple is more profitable, but also why its Application Processor technology is rapidly evolving faster than Samsung's.

Apple gets Ax series for effort

Samsung's design choices to use ARM's inferior Mali GPU and ARM's big.LITTLE CPU architecture are informative because Samsung isn't struggling (like HTC) to gain access to chip fabs or silicon design expertise. Thanks in part to its decade of partnerships with Apple to develop chips for high volume iPods and iPhones, Samsung is now one of the top chip fabs in existence.

However, having the ability to build the best chips doesn't mean Samsung has the desire to. That's no doubt a contributing reason why Apple began building its own in-house chip design team around five years ago. The "A4" used in iPhone 4 and the original iPad was the first major delivery.

Since then, Apple has rapidly outpaced the rest of the mobile chip design world. Using its volume sales of iOS devices to drive investment in better and better chips leveraging economies of scale, Apple has managed to deploy the first 64-bit mobile processors in a volume product, which also happened to be the highest volume product of last year.

While Samsung ships samples of Exynos devices in some markets, the majority of its smartphone and tablet volumes pay for the development of Qualcomm Snapdragon chips. Yet even Qualcomm insiders noted last year that in its move to 64 bits, "Apple kicked everybody in the balls with this. It's being downplayed, but it set off panic in the industry."

Other chip makers (including many who were sitting on advanced technology) have been left behind in the mobile space because they partnered with hardware makers who couldn't sell their chips. Every generation of Nvidia's Tegra chips, for example, have been installed in loser products ranging from Microsoft's Zune HD to KIN to Surface and Nvidia's own Shield.

Intel and AMD have made very little progress in courting business from mobile devices, and TI's OMAP processor family was abandoned when the company pulled out of the consumer mobile industry (after powering a series of low volume flops including Amazon's Kindle Fire, Nook, BlackBerry Playbook and the Google-Samsung cobranded Galaxy Nexus).

Pedal to the Metal

On top the economies of scale driving (and financing) rapid advancement of Apple's Ax series of Application Processors, the company has also developed its own Metal API as a superior performance alternative to the more general purpose, cross platform OpenGL ES and OpenCL for general computing on a GPU.

Because Samsung doesn't standardize on a single Application Processor family (using both its own Exynos and Qualcomm's Snapdragon chips in the same models) or even a single GPU architecture (using a mix of ARM Mali, PowerVR, and Adreno GPUs across even its latest devices), it can't replicate Apple's Metal in a way that would benefit its own products.

Metal is already seeing adoption just days after iOS 8 became available to consumers; top App Store games have been ported to Metal before even getting to Android.

Using Metal, developers can achieve higher frame rates (and animate more details at any target frame rate) on the same hardware, allowing games on iPhone 6 Plus to further outpace competing devices in its category, widening the nearly 2x performance gap it already enjoys over Samsung's Galaxy Note 4 in generic OpenGL benchmarks.


278 posted on 02/11/2015 4:50:05 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users contnue...)
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To: Mad Dawgg; Star Traveler; PA Engineer; ctdonath2; aMorePerfectUnion; itsahoot
You tried to play Sparky Professor with your economics Total Cost of Ownership ploy. It didn't work. live by claiming an Economics Degree trumps fact, Die by it.

LOOK IDIOT! You did not even have a clue what Total Cost of Ownership was until I very carefully explained what it was, point by careful point. I omitted irrelevancies, to keep it simple for simpletons in the audience, such as you. Things that are the same for ALL cellular smartphones DO NOT MATTER. IDIOT! They are assumed. I am not going to go through a lot of other things that go into a Total Cost of Ownership as well. . . because they are there as well, but they are there also for other phones. They, too, are irrelevancies.

This is more RED HERRING Fallacies. My bringing up this is not a "Appeal to Authority" fallacy when I AM THE AUTHORITY. When I am bringing my education to bear on an issue, that is not an appeal to authority fallacy. If it were nothing could ever be taught or imparted to any discussion. I tutored in logic in college. Again you fail. I played FACTS, not my degree. . . and demonstrated the facts, based on my education. YOU CHOSE TO IGNORE THE FACTS, trying to trump facts with ignorance. That is stupidity.

Your approach to discussion is to cover your ears and yell "YAYAYAYAYAYAYAY I can't hear you!" You have a hermetically sealed mind.

279 posted on 02/11/2015 4:58:07 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users contnue...)
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To: Swordmaker

You mentioned viewing videos:

Graphics

Watching HD videos and playing games constitutes a lot of what people do on their smartphones, so having a strong graphics processor is essential. Fortunately, the new iPhones are up to the task.

On the synthetic benchmark 3DMark Ice Storm Unlimited, the S5 blew past all of Apple’s devices with a score of 18,204. The iPhone 6 Plus scored 16,965, while the 6 scored 16,558, and the 5s notched 14,259.


280 posted on 02/11/2015 5:03:22 PM PST by TexasGator
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