Replies

DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis: "You seem to think that the South seceded just for their own pleasure.
That would be ridiculous."

No, it's the fact, there was no legitimate reason for secession, as our Founders understood it.
There was no mutual consent, and no breech of compact, period.
The fact that the Slave Power didn't like their new Black Republican President, "Ape" Lincoln, is irrelevant -- he had not even taken office, and Southern Democrats still effectively controlled the Federal Government.

Therefore, by any reasonable definition, the Slave Power did not declare secession "for cause", but rather "at pleasure."

Regardless, neither their declarations of secession nor their forming a new Confederate government caused Civil War.
War only came because the Confederacy provoked, started, formally declared war, and sent military aid to Confederates in Union states.

So all of your pro-secession justification gobbledygook is utterly irrelevant, FRiend.

DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis: "Yes Lincoln had made promises.
For one, he promised the State of Virginia that Fort Sumter would be evacuated if Virginia did not secede.
And so Virginia voted down secession..."

In fact, Virginia delegates refused Lincoln's offer of "a fort for a state", only waiting until they had adequate excuse -- the Confederate assault and seizure of Fort Sumter -- before switching their vote from Union to secession.

DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis: "The Federal government began taking more power for itself and abridging the rights of the states from very early on."

In fact, the Southern Slave Power effectively controlled the Federal Government almost continuously from its founding until the end on 1860, when it began declaring secession.
It was, after all, the Slave Power which insisted the Federal Government enforce fugitive slave laws in Northern states regardless of those states own laws.
So all Federal usurpations and abuses were instituted by, and in support of the Southern Slave Power.

What the Slave Power objected to in 1861 was its future potential loss of such control as it had previously exercised over Federal government.

DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis: "Finally, Lincoln told South Carolina that he was going to be sending down provisions for the Fort.
It was only when the discovery was made that he was also sending arms and reinforcements that the decision to attack was made."

Again, you obviously don't know the actual facts.
In fact, South Carolina's militia back in January, 1861 had fired artillery on a single, unarmed resupply ship sent by outgoing President Buchanan to Fort Sumter, and since then South Carolina's Governor Pickens had been urging Jefferson Davis to make a military assault on the fort.
In fact, Davis ordered military preparations for the assault on March 3, the day before Lincoln took his oath of office.
And Davis ordered final preparations on April 8, immediately after receiving Lincoln's promise that no additional troops will land at Fort Sumter, if there is no resistance to his resupply ships.

So, Davis' assault on Fort Sumter was programmed from the beginning, and was necessary to get Virginia delegates to change their votes from Union to secession.
With that assault, in one swift stroke, the Confederacy doubled its size and population, but at the price of starting a war that, in hind sight, they would have been better to avoid.

I see you still think there was no good reason for secession. I'm not sure if you realized, but ever since our country was founded, the federal government had been slowly overreaching its bounds, and usurping more power to itself. This goes way back. And in the election of a candidate from a new party that was sectional (an unheard of thing before) and represented the interests of only one half of the country was the last straw. The South had good reason not to like Lincoln. He was a big government guy. He had campaigned on many big government issues. He campaigned on tariffs in Pennsylvania, promising to raise them, which made the North happy and the South upset. After all, the tariffs simply benefitted one half of the country at the expense of the other. The South was already paying more than half of all taxes despite her smaller population and more than half of that tax money was being spent on improvements up North. Lincoln also supported creating a National Bank, another big government move, an idea big-government-lover Hamilton had always loved. He passed the National Banking act in 1863 Having a National bank allowed the federal government control of the currency, and with this control they could influence the economy through inflating. We see were inflation has gotten us today. He was also a supporter of taxing individuals on their income and property and etc, and one of the first things he did as president was to pass the first income tax bill. This law demanded that taxes be "levied, collected, and paid, upon the annual income of every person residing in the United States, whether such income is derived from any kind of property, or from any profession, trade, employment, or vocation carried on in the United States or elsewhere, or from any other source whatever." Compare this to the Constitution, which says that "No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid."

Based on what they knew of the things that he supported (and which he later made into law), don't you think that they had good reason to leave? Here was this guy who supported enlarging the role of government beyond the delegated powers in the Constitution and he comes from this new party which represented only one section of the country.

Also, in case you didn't know, Lincoln was the first to declare war. He declared it on April 27 1861. The Confederacy didn't declare war until May 15th. Their declaration of war reads thus:

"Whereas, the earnest efforts made by this government to establish friendly relations between the government of the United States and the Confederate States and to settle all questions of disagreement between the two governments upon principles of right, justice, equity and good faith, have proved unavailing, by reason of the refusal of the government of the United States to hold any intercourse with the Commissioners appointed by the government for the purposes aforesaid or to listen to any proposal they had to make for the peaceful solution of all causes of difficulties between the two governments; and

Whereas, the President of the United States of America has issued his Proclamation, making the requisition upon the states of the American Union for seventy-five thousand men, for the purpose as therein indicated of capturing forts, and other strongholds of the jurisdiction of, and belonging to the Confederate States of America, and has detailed Naval armaments upon the coast of the Confederate States of America, and raised, organized and equipped a large military force to execute the purpose aforesaid, and has issued his other Proclamations announcing his purpose to set foot a blockage of the ports of the Confederate States; and

Whereas, the State of Virginia has seceded from the Federal Union and entered into a convention of alliance, offensive and defensive, with the Confederate States, and has adopted the provisional Constitution of said states and the states of Maryland, North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Arkansas, and Missouri have refused, and it is believed that the state of Delaware and the inhabitants of the territories of Arizona, and New Mexico and the Indian Territory south of Kansas, will refuse to cooperate with the government of the United States in these acts of hostilities and wanton aggression, which are plainly intended to oppress and finally, subjugate the people of the Confederate States; and

Whereas, by the acts and means of aforesaid war exists between the Confederate States and the government of the United States and the states and territories thereof, except the states of Maryland, North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Arkansas, and Missouri and Delaware, and the inhabitants of the territories of Arizona and New Mexico and the Indian Territory south of Kansas."

The Confederate government in early 1861 had been sending peace delegations to Washington to try and negotiate friendly relations with the United States Government. Seward and Lincoln refused to even see them. The Confederate government, seeing that the North didn't want peace and rather had declared war on them with the object being their subjugation, they were left with no choice but to fight back. But notice they were not eager for the war. They waited over two weeks after getting Lincoln's declaration of war before they put out their own.

Virginia wasn't waiting for an excuse. They and the other border states had not intention of seceding. They wanted to remain neutral. It was only when Lincoln demanded that they supply troops to fight their brothers that anyone even considered secession.

It was, after all, the Slave Power which insisted the Federal Government enforce fugitive slave laws in Northern states regardless of those states own laws. So all Federal usurpations and abuses were instituted by, and in support of the Southern Slave Power.

Hold on a moment. The fugitive slave laws were part of the compromise of 1850, in which the South gained nothing except the FSL, which were just a full faith and credit thing. In the compromise, Texas ceded its claim on New Mexico, California was admitted as a free state, and the South adopted the Wilmot proviso outlawing slavery in the territories. Also, the South was a minority in the congress. They were a far cry from controlling it. And your claim that all federal usurpation were relay the fault of the South is ludicrous. Got any proof for that?
Also about those fugitive slave law: The North complained about them a lot, yes, but did they really care about blacks? No. If they did, then why did so many Northern states at that time have laws prohibiting free blacks from moving there? They didn't like blacks. That was also a large part of the reason for banning slavery in the territories. It wasn't out of any love for the slaves, rather, for most free-soilers it was because they wanted the territories reserved for "free white labor".

Have to laugh about the idea that the Fort Sumter attack was done with the aim of getting Virginia into the Confederacy. If that was the real reason for it as you say, then it failed. Virginia didn't join after fort Sumter. They didn't join until Lincoln demanded that they supply troops.