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Gun Trouble (M-4, M-16)
The Atlantic ^ | December 28, 2014 | Robert H. Scales

Posted on 12/30/2014 5:44:13 AM PST by C19fan

The rifle that today's infantry uses is little changed since the 1960s—and it is badly flawed. Military lives depend on these cheap composites of metal and plastic. So why can't the richest country in the world give its soldiers better ones?

One afternoon just a month and a half after the Battle of Gettysburg, Christopher Spencer, the creator of a seven-shot repeating rifle, walked Abraham Lincoln out to a grassy field near where the Washington Monument now stands in order to demonstrate the amazing potential of his new gun. Lincoln had heard about the mystical powers of repeating rifles at Gettysburg and other battles where some Union troops already had them. He wanted to test them for the rest of his soldiers. The president quickly put seven rounds inside a small target 40 yards away. He was sold.

(Excerpt) Read more at theatlantic.com ...


TOPICS: History; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: banglist; m16; m4; rifle
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To: C19fan

Yup, the M-4,M-16 suck so bad that all the people that have been killed with one need to get up and go about their business.


21 posted on 12/30/2014 6:20:22 AM PST by mad_as_he$$
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To: Lazamataz

I wasnt tellin him that to his face...

https://www.facebook.com/william.bodette?fref=ts


22 posted on 12/30/2014 6:20:35 AM PST by Vigilantcitizen
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To: C19fan

the author: Major General ROBERT H. SCALES, JR., Retired 30 November 2000,
United States Military Academy- BS Degree - No Major
Feb 96 Jul 97 Deputy Chief of Staff for Doctrine, United States Army Training and Doctrine Command, Fort Monroe, Virginia
Jul 97 Aug 00 Commandant, United States Army War College, Carlisle Barracks, Pennsylvania


23 posted on 12/30/2014 6:30:24 AM PST by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: Vigilantcitizen

Do it anonymously over the internet.


24 posted on 12/30/2014 6:30:42 AM PST by Lazamataz ("Two parties, governing AGAINST the will of the people, not with the consent of the governed." --MrB)
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To: rjsimmon

Trained with the M-14 in Basic. Beautiful weapon. I wish I had it now.


25 posted on 12/30/2014 6:35:52 AM PST by onedoug
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To: C19fan
...what off the shelf rifle/carbine would you replace it with?

The AR180. It was meant as an improvement to address the shortcomings of the M16. Similar in some respects but much cheaper to make It does away with direct gas impingement, has a bolt handle located on the bolt and the recoil spring is not housed in a receiver extension, allowing for a more compact folding stock. The AR180 really is like a combination of the best of the M16/M4 and the AK47. I'm sure many will disagree.
26 posted on 12/30/2014 6:40:01 AM PST by 762X51
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To: Lazamataz

Oh what the hell...whats the worst that can happen...while Im at it...Ill call him a soldier too.


27 posted on 12/30/2014 6:42:33 AM PST by Vigilantcitizen
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To: WayneS

223 / 5.56mm

In every state I am familiar with its too small for deer hunting.It is considered too small for a humane kill.
I call it a rodent gun or something suitable for training kids and girls.


28 posted on 12/30/2014 6:47:34 AM PST by gfbtbb (Ladies and Gentlemen, we are on our own.)
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To: C19fan

http://kitup.military.com/2014/05/army-begins-equipping-soldiers.html


29 posted on 12/30/2014 6:57:18 AM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: gfbtbb

I would not want to be shot with one.

With that said, I’ve always thought .243 would be a good round for the AR15/M16 platform.

It’s got decent ballistics, provides a good bit more punch than .223, but is not as heavy as .308 so it’d be easier to carry more rounds on one’s person.

I know I am in the minority on this issue, and I also know that .243 is not a traditional/standard military and/or NATO-accepted round, but that’s my opinion and I’m sticking with it.

;-)


30 posted on 12/30/2014 6:58:23 AM PST by WayneS (Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.)
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To: P-Marlowe

> It’s not the weapons that have put our soldiers at risk. It is the rules of engagement.

On 2 occasions, both during fire fights, my POS M16 jammed. Both times I needed to partially disassemble the damn thing remove the shell that bent because of the crappy feed mechanism, put the thing back together and then continue the fight. The beautiful M14 that they took from me to give me the crappy M16 never once failed. It may have weighed twice as much and I couldn’t carry as many shells, but it didn’t let me down.


31 posted on 12/30/2014 7:00:23 AM PST by BuffaloJack (Muslim Creeping Conquest of America and Canada)
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To: 762X51

I’m not familiar with the AR180. Based on your description, though, it sounds pretty capable.

Will you post a photo and/or a good link to get accurate information on it?


32 posted on 12/30/2014 7:00:33 AM PST by WayneS (Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.)
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To: smokingfrog

In the photo with that article it almost looks like the front sight would interfere with the view through the scope.


33 posted on 12/30/2014 7:06:39 AM PST by WayneS (Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.)
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To: C19fan

The author seems to suggest the 6.8 SPC.

Today’s military faces a more daunting threat.

Rules of Engagement which transform war fighting into self-defense constraints more severe than those imposed on civilians at home.

As for the cost of aircraft, we need the politics out of the design requirements process, and a funding profile that allows for an orderly development and test process, leading to production in economic order quantities.


34 posted on 12/30/2014 7:08:56 AM PST by G Larry (Amnesty imposes SLAVE WAGES on LEGAL immigrants & minorities)
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To: onedoug

The M-14 with 200 rounds weighs more than a M246 SAW with 300 rounds.


35 posted on 12/30/2014 7:29:22 AM PST by offwhite
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Actually,the M16 was originally intended to use IMR type powder.The problems with jamming and deposits in the gas tube were a result of using ball powder,specifically ball powder that had been made with too much calcium carbonate.The calcium carbonate is used to neutralize the acidity of the powder and stabilize it.


36 posted on 12/30/2014 7:35:48 AM PST by Farmer Dean (stop worrying about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
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To: onedoug

The M1A is the same weapon,just semi-auto only.You can always buy one of those,I did.


37 posted on 12/30/2014 7:38:02 AM PST by Farmer Dean (stop worrying about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
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To: Farmer Dean

I love my M1A.


38 posted on 12/30/2014 7:41:11 AM PST by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: 762X51

I`ve heard the same concerning Stoner`s direct impingement system. The newer gas piston system does away with those issues, others I`m not familiar with.


39 posted on 12/30/2014 7:52:30 AM PST by nomad
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To: 762X51

BTW, how much is one in 5.56/.223?


40 posted on 12/30/2014 7:55:12 AM PST by nomad
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