Posted on 11/09/2014 5:54:20 AM PST by EBH
I guess that explains it, I’ve only flown SEL taildraggers and tri landing gear types. Side slip is so much easier and better than the crab. Seems if you are in the envelope for a crab you will be for the slip also if you end up performing a slip right at the point of flare anyway. Wait, I still don’t get it....
I wonder if arrogance and being a airline pilot go together. I fly one of those put puts you trained in o so long ago.
I have made worse landings than that. Why just last week I came in a little hot and landed three times.
Logged them all.
“They all crab in, they try to straighten it with the rudder at the last instant, but sometimes they can’t, and sometimes they blow all the tires.”
Agree. There has to be a point where the crosswinds are so severe, the pilot says “Nope, not going to do it. Wouldn’t be prudent”, and go land somewhere else. This video looked like one of those times.
You spoke as if the pilot landing the jet in a serious cross wind was doing it wrong. Who was being arrogant, pointing out that you were wrong to criticize what you know little about?
Odd because O’Hare has runways aligned in many directions so that extreme crosswinds really shouldn’t be a problem. Very strong winds directly from the North or South being the only possible exception.
Depends on how much rudder authority they have at their disposal whether or not they even have the option to slip it straight in.
The landing gear is built to take a bit of side load like that, and aircraft with low-hanging engines don’t have the slip option anyway. Most every “radical crosswind landing” video I’ve watched features commercial aircraft crabbing them in.
I was taught to crab it down to the runway, then kick it out, flare, land. I was shown the slip method, but to me it was more difficult.
Narita.
Always had my gut up on those...seeing the runway at a 45Degree angle is interesting...
That flight probably had many potential ebola suspects, what with all the barfing and filled barfbags.
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Amazing. That pilot deserves all the kudos he can get.
Surely you know that many of those tail draggers parked next to you are flown by airline pilots, right? Just because I have flown an airliner for thirty years does not mean I have left small aircraft behind.
As for “crab vs slip” there is no difference in large or small aircraft in the basic aerodynamics. There are not two method as you suggest. There is one: touch down in a slip. You need to touch down with the wheels aligned to the direction of travel once on the ground. That requires a slip, EVERY time. The difference in a small aircraft is you can slip early, all the way on final if you want. In a swept wing, or FBW aircraft that is dangerous, so instead the slip is done in ground effect, moments before touch down.
In the ORD landing, there is a camera parallax tha makes look worse, but the pilot flying did not have sufficient aileron to complete the slip, so ihe touched down in a crabbed slip, which is acceptable if you want to avoid catching a wingtip.
Ok I have been number two for landing on very windy days and I am happily slipping it in no problem at all and I am watch the “professional” do all of this crazy $h1t, trying to flare and correct wing level and straighten the fuselage out all at once, should be illegal IMO. So there must be a reason for it. What doesn’t make sense are people telling me there is not enough rudder authority to side slip BUT aren’t you in essence doing a side slip right at flare about 50 feet off the ground when crabbing in a cross wind? It is crazy watching this from my point of view. I would appreciate an explanation to someone who has been flying for years, I fly commercial and some of the crap that goes on drives me crazy and this is one of them.
I sort of thought so...
Winds that day through the Great Lakes region were brutal.
More dangerous than trying to flare, level the wings, maintain proper airspeed and align the fuselage up with the runway (the nose wheel problem) ALL AT ONCE? Interesting discussion, at least to me.
Same here.
Just because you do not understand it does not make those of us that have tens of thousands of hours flying in every possible kind of weather wrong.
It is NOT about having enough rudder, it is about not catching a wing tip, and the rudder blanking you get in a slip in a swept wing. In most respects it is roll authority (aileron) that is lacking in a serious crosswind. Even if you could slip enough, you would catch a wing tip. At the same time, a slip in a swept wing interrupts airflow across the rudder, compounding the problem.
Any pilot that has any modicum of experience in a swept wing aircraft will tell you the same thing: you should NEVER slip until you are in ground effect.
In the landing at ORD, if you notice, as the upwind wheel touches, the pilot brings the nose more in alignment with the runway. In a bad enough crosswind that is all you can do. Once the upwind wheel is on the ground, before the downwind wheel touches, you can swing the nose around so there is little crab left, so the side load is minimized.
If you can’t accept a professional opinion, consider the fact that one of the largest rudders ever put on an aircraft was on the B-52. It was not because of a lack of rudder that the B-52 has rotation “crab” landing gear (the crew cranks in a hand crank the angle of wind before landing - moving the direction of the main gear). They always land in a flat out crab in a crosswind. It is not because of a lack of rudder - it is because the upwind wing will be in the concrete in a crosswind slip.
Heh. I experienced a similar landing in a 747 at Logan once.
Thought we were gonna flip when the gear touched down and the big ol' thing lurched right then left and finally centered. The screams in the cabin were something to hear.
Having never flown anything with a swept wing I had no clue that you couldn’t slip except in ground effect. This is not common knowledge to some of us putt putt drivers. So thanks for the info. This had been bothering me for a long time. I tried to crab in a severe cross wind one time, it is great until the very end but it turned into an almost disaster for me as I could not manage to do all 5 things at once so I went around and landed the old school way. So I have a lot of respect for the pros in that regard. I just couldn’t understand why they do it in the first place.
That was a piece of flying, all right. It’s always a thrill driving up to or by O’Hare, with the 747s coming in right above the freeway, but I’d have definitely stopped the car (or slowed from 85 to 60) to watch that one!
Auto-land. This young generation can’t land without it, or the company manual dictates they use auto-land under certain conditions.
I doubt cross control ailerons and rudder on a jet? Not hardly.
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