Doctors respond to parents of Down syndrome newborns with cruelty and callousness

Live Action ^ | Sarah Terzo

[Politicalkiddo]

“Do I support abortions of convenience? No. But I do support the 2% of abortions that are performed for legitimate reasons and I’m sure other pro-lifers do, too.”

That’s what aborting children with disabilities is; a matter of convenience. It’s a selfish hatred of child who are less than perfect. It’s a desire to make your child rearing experience as simple as possible. Sure, you could say that you are sparing a child with disabilities pain, but that would be illogical to state. Killing someone painfully with drugs or ripping them apart piece by piece would be just as painful, or even more so, than letting them live. Your supposed “compassion” for a child by killing it to spare it pain is stupid. You cannot prevent someone’s pain by afflicting him with pain.

[CatherineofAragon]

I absolutely agree.

[Jim from C-Town]

Horseshit!

Spin all you want. A pro-life person doesn't need the tests as they are certain to give birth anyway.

The 2% are what? Rape? Incest? Of course an abortion for this is a conspiracy and in most situations the abortionist is acting as an accomplice after the fact. He is a murderer anyway, so conspiracy to rape is hardly a big deal.

My wife has had five children. The first and fifth where completely normal all over 35 three over 40. We went through all the tests on the first two. After all the worry about our second with all his problems. Yet, none where uncovered by amniocenteses. No more than an ultrasound was necessary to determine he had problems. And ultrasound is noninvasive. Spontaneous abortion (Miscarriage) is around 1 in 300.and up to 1 -100 for older women. So why bother?

Even on the twins only an ultrasound. No need to do more as we would certainly not abort. After the response our OB/GYN got from my wife and I after the termination talk for Douglas, they knew better than to bring it up.

As per pre-pregnancy genetic testing, it is useless as to whether any individual child would get Down’s syndrome. Post pregnancy testing is simply to kill the imperfect. There is no other reason for it. That is abortion for convenience straight up. No way to sugar coat it. Complete cowardice, nothing more.

BTW: You don't need any of that crap for a Down’s Syndrome child. Particularly in the first year. They are just like any other baby, completely helpless and easy to transport. Home modifications?, Lined up therapists? All that crap comes AFTER birth. Until the child comes, there is nothing to evaluate so there is no plan of action. The first time you meet any of these people is AFTER the child is born alive.

As for the difficult pregnancy. There is no more difficulty in carrying a Downs child to birth than any other. The actual pregnancy is generally uneventful. It is after the birth that things can get difficult. Not much more than an unexpected Congenital Heart Disorder and those are undiagnosed DAILY in utero.

People get hit by cars, break their necks in pools and become handicapped every day. They get cancer and some children are born after all the tests and plans only to have an undiagnosed heart disorder. Are we then free to eliminate them as they have become a net financial loss? An inconvenience to be sure.

Your point is simple. As simple as I said. You think some people are more worthy of life than others. Simple. just like your mind!

[Flick Lives]

Word!

[blueplum]

I’m sorry if I come off callous or coldhearted, I apologize. I don’t mean to offend Down’s Syndrome children or those parents who make a decision together not to abort.

But it’s not the children I’m ranting about. Or even 20 or 30yo’d mothers. The nurse in me is ranting about the 40yo grown woman in the article in egg-denial, who ignored her doctor’s medical advice, ignored her own age and own physiology, ignored testing - in spite of stacks of research to support her classification as exceptionally high-risk, AND, here comes the wife in me - who didn’t even bother to involve the husband in counseling. Who was she married to? herself?

I don’t see how any of those actions equate to mature or responsible parenting, responsible decision-making within the marriage or responsible preparation for a child highly likely to be born with severe ongoing medical issues, needing both parents fully on board, mentally and financially. There is no reason, in this day and age, for a middle-aged husband to be ‘surprised’.

Genetic counseling for middle-aged couples, prior to pregnancy, done together, followed by timely screening for abnormalities that both parents are made aware of, is as essential for a successful outcome for the child as is testing for incompatible blood types between 18yo potential newlyweds.

Amniocentesis carries a low overall risk - a 1/1,600 chance of spontaneous abortion. Measured against the 1/30 probability of 40yo’s having a DS child, and the 1/6 mortality rate in DS infants during the first year, it’s an acceptable risk to learn exactly what a parent is going to have to deal with.

some non-invasive tests by trimester:

First trimester:
“In the first trimester, ultrasound...Soft markers are findings that... might indicate that the baby has an underlying chromosome abnormality....If your nuchal translucency screening is positive, you will be referred to a genetic counselor”

http://downsyndrome.about.com/od/whatcausesdownsyndrome/a/analytes_ro_2.htm

Second trimester:
“Second Screen is a blood test performed in the second trimester of pregnancy...[and] can detect 7 or 8 out of 10 cases of Down syndrome.

http://www.geneticstesting.com/patient_info/secondscreen_patient.htm

second trimester sonogram markers:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/01/130130101839.htm

third trimester sonogram:
sonographic identification of Down’s Syndrome:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10912971

[blueplum]

*The 2% are what? Rape? Incest? Of course an abortion for this is a conspiracy *

All rapes are a conspiracy? now you don’t really mean that. You’re just upset at me.

Genetic counseling is important because some ethnic groups have a higher incidence of DS pregnancies, especially in those over age 35 (mexican versus African versus Islander versus Asian versus White, and then subgroups amongst them).

Physical therapy is also recommended for DS infants. Here’s a short article:

“Early physical therapy makes a decisive difference in the long-term functional outcome of the child with DS...”

http://ds-health.com/physther.htm

Marriage counseling is recommended at first positive sonogram. Family therapy with siblings also recommended, especially if one is not fortunate enough to have a relatively healthy DS baby.

A DS positive pregnancy shouldn’t be kept a secret from the father or from the siblings. It’s not just the mother who needs time to mentally prepare for the challenge, it’s the entire family.

Thanks for describing your family. I can read that you love them very, very much.

Sorry I upset you, FRiend. God Bless.

[Clump]

God bless you and your family.
That sounds like a very difficult time and I can’t imagine the grief after bonding for over two years.
I feel like the bonding with my kids actually started before they were even born.
Our son has changed our perspectives and taught us a new way of cherishing life and all the blessings from God.
Thank you for speaking up for your son. I did it too and it takes courage to do so in the environment often presented by the medical community these days.
Without knowing you I can say with a high degree of confidence that God did things in you through your son that couldn’t have been done otherwise.
It’s these kinds if testimonies that need to get out so people will stop trying to play God through abortion.
When I learned that 92% of pregnancies with babies that have DS get aborted I was stunned. I knew it would be high, but 92%!
I’m trying to be a voice fir those who can’t speak for themselves.
Again God bless you and thank you for sharing.

[wagglebee]

Once in a while, I see a Down’s Syndrome parent shopping or doing something with their “child”, even though they usually look like adults, and, you know, I’ve never seen even a hint of a smile or a look of contentedness by any of these parents.

Ever!

Out of curiosity, why did you put child in quotations? Do you not consider someone with Down's to be a person?

Has it ever occurred to you that the parents look of unhappiness is because pathetic losers like you scowl at them?

[wagglebee]

They always look burdened and they probably have been for a long long time.

Hello again troll, it looks like you're my morning project. Don't despair though, these ordeals are usually pretty quick.

And, no, I’m not a pro lifer no matter what.

Thanks for stating the obvious. Were you aware that Free Republic is a PRO-LIFE forum and trolls like you don't belong here?

And pro lifer absolutists lost most of the moral standing I used to imagine that maybe they had with me awhile ago.

Why because we don't subscribe to your Obamaesque opinions that some people shouldn't be allowed to be born?

[DJ MacWoW]

And, no, I’m not a pro lifer no matter what. And pro lifer absolutists lost most of the moral standing I used to imagine that maybe they had with me awhile ago.

Then you are on the wrong forum.

[wagglebee]

I’m not trying to be mean but is your 20 yer-old brother employed or employable?

You are among the most pathetic trolls I've ever seen on here?

Are YOU employed or employable? Does YOUR boss know that you have a mindset that typically only exists among abortionists and white supremacists?

And do your parents get government subsidies to support their Down’s son?

What the hell do you care? Losers like you don't earn enough money to pay taxes.

Your zot cannot come soon enough.

I went ahead and translated this for you, I'm sure your Stormfront buddies have always wondered what it says.

“This person suffering from hereditary defects

costs the people 60,000 Reichmarks during his lifetime.

People, that is your money. Read ‘New People’.”

[DJ MacWoW]

What a sad, small person you are.

[Responsibility2nd]

Patient Cat is Patient....

[2nd amendment mama]

I will pray to God that no one that I know EVER encounters you as their nurse.

[NorthMountain]

“The Radical Politics magazine of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party”

[DJ MacWoW]

What amazes me is that anyone thinks it’s any of their business. She made choices different than yours or the doctors so you have the right to call her names and the doctor can be rude because she didn’t obey him? Who the hell ARE you people? Unless it involves the murder of a child it’s called MYOB.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Another problem here is that a lot of these tests are like injections of anxiety, which is the last thing a pregnant mom needs.

I'm not against "all" testing. I have nothing against pre-pregnancy testing. If there were a family history of Tay-Sachs or something of the sort, I would consider pre-conception testing a matter of --- as you say --- mature responsibility.

Early in the pregnancy, I handed over the blood and urine samples and did the ultrasound like almost all pregnant mothers do. But if I had it to do over again, I would have refused even the AFP test which, with its ambiguous results, prompted the doctor to press me hard for an amnio.

AFP has lots of false positives AND false negatives. It's like having your tea-leaves read by some faintly alarming sorcerer. It only produces an anxiety, an ambivalence, a tentativeness about the pregnancy.

After I had been emotionally manipulated by my first OB/GYN --- on the basis of the AFP --- to talk to a genetic counselor who was then to ring up for an amnio appointment, my husband advised me to think of every question I could possibly ask, write the questions down, and keep asking until I had absolute clarity on the answers.

So I asked this genetics-counselor gentleman what difference it would make if the amnio showed some chromosomal anomaly. He showed me a kind of picture-catalogue of babies with different anomalies, malevolently exhibited --- just splayed like bugs --- and made the assumption I would abort each and every one of them.

I said, in I hope an even tone of voice, that my husband and I were both against abortion, and this suave yet repellent man said, "Both? We could give you a prostaglandin suppository, and you could miscarry, and he would never know. You could act surprised and sad. It IS a miscarriage, as far as we are concerned."

Then I asked, supposing we excluded abortion, how the management of pregnancy or delivery would be different depending on what was found by the amnio. His answer was, "If you go through with childbirth, the pregnancy management wouldn't be any different. Maybe you'd want to deliver at a hospital with a Level III NICU." Which our hospital has anyway.

Then he said he'd be glad to schedule the amnio. I declined. Incredibly, he had the effrontery to argue with me. I gave him another, firm "No."

By the time I got back home I was just fuming. A prostaglandin suppository! There you have it: kill your child; then, cramping and bleeding, you pass his remains into the toilet; AND lie to your husband, in fact, lie repeatedly to everyone you know. Lie to yourself. What a healing experience for the woman! I guess it's about the level of ethics one should expect from these marketers counselors.

I wrote a letter to my then-OB/GYN and the genetics counselor, laid out my case against them, said I didn't want anybody touching me if they didn't want to treat my baby like Jesus Christ, and fired them both. When my husband came home from work, he read it and signed it too.

Our firstborn son? He was born fine. Now 2nd Lt. USMC. Our second son, adopted, multiple birth defects, no less a Child of God.

[Salvation]

I have one natural grandson and one adopted granddaughter with Down Syndrome. Both are a delight.

[don-o]

And, no, I’m not a pro lifer no matter what.

But, you ARE a smoking ruin.

IATZ

[don-o]

I am glad you shared that.