[The_Media_never_lie]

Thank you for teaching our children. I will have a question for you later....

[FredZarguna]

All right, I will respond to you as someone who had to deal with the "work product" of the public schools for many years; before retiring from academia I taught Physics to undergraduates at a large state university.

Whatever Common Core may have to do with English is very nearly irrelevant because the teaching of mathematics in this program is so awful. Common Core stresses conceptual mathematics. This is an enormous mistake, and it is a mistake that we have been making since 1962, when "The New Math" was first introduced. Conceptual Mathematics is a darling of educationists, and is thoroughly despised by practitioners: engineers, physicists, chemists, economists, ... and even most mathematicians who follow education.

You simply cannot teach young children mathematical concepts until they have the the basics down absolutely cold. Attempting to do so is like attempting to teach reading without knowing the alphabet and the phonics made by letter combinations. They must know this at a reflexive, sub-cortical level without even thinking about it, or they cannot possibly concentrate on the actual meaning of text.

Conceptual Mathematics for children under twelve or thirteen is worse than a waste of time -- it is destructive.It teaches them nothing they need and in many cases fosters a genuine lifelong hatred of mathematics. Almost no two humans conceptualize mathematics in the same way, and forcing some professional educator's concepts down an aspiring mathematician's throat is an excellent way to destroy her desire to learn math.

Every time we have tried the educationists' approach, we have ruined another generation of children for math, and every time we've tried it, it's ultimately been abandoned with at least a temporary return to the basics of arithmetic drill and operation.

I agree with you that what most of my children were forced to read was liberal crap. This isn't particularly damaging to them, because most kids recognize -- and have recognized for as long as there has been a public education system -- that the "literature" they're being told to read is about half garbage, and nothing more than garbage that their English teachers themselves like. Thus has it ever been [examples from my youth: The Crucible, The Catcher in the Rye, The Great Gatsby quite frankly, all worthless dreck.] But at that point in their academic careers, they already -- at least -- know how to read. The Common Core standards for math are disabling our students at a much younger and much more dangerous age.

[SoConPubbie]

First of all, you’ve been a teacher for how long and do not understand the concept of local control of education being the best approach?

Do you not understand that Education DOES NOT fall under the limited number of items the Federal Government has responsibility for controlling per the Constitution?

[VTenigma]

The common core standards in English may seem innocuous in the beginning, but you may be discounting the creeping incrementalizm of the educational left. Look to the common core mission statement and long term goals and you will undoubtedly unearth the true agenda.

[Sloth]

If you aren’t a teacher (and most conservatives aren’t, which is a pity)

This is because it usually requires an education degree/certificate instead of something useful.

[Attention Surplus Disorder]

I can’t comment about the English aspects of CC because I haven’t looked at “sample problems” or “exercises” proffered by either adherents or opponents to CC. Nor was I all that strong in English in high school but I was a vicious monster in math with 790, 796, and 800 on my SATs. Nor am I a teacher.

The two subjects are just profoundly different. English has a degree of fluff in it, and other than the ability to recall specific facts and names in reading comprehension, I have an appreciation for a student’s ability to interpret, to equivocate and to gain impressions from reading. S’cool. I myself have only a little of that.

But math, especially up to pre-calculus, it is my opinion that you want to take this stuff and crush it. You want to have a grasp of the procedures and approaches and have deep certainty as to what you are doing and beat its head in. This takes confidence and a degree of aggression, IMHO. You get to that condition by practicing the stuff and developing an appreciation of the idea that even though it may be boring, it can be approached with a certain rhythm and yes, rote, but the student is acquiring something and seeing definite progress. There is symmetry, there is pattern recognition....very musical in some senses. That’s a confidence builder. It’s probably a different area of the brain.

The difference, in a nutshell, is the value one ascribes to CERTAINTY. Some people like certainty, myself among them. Kids, IMO, have very, very little they can be certain about, except by default, eg; they don’t even think about it. For some, I very much believe certainty and confidence are character-building elements and there are those who have a natural affinity for certainty and those for whom the trait could be developed. Others shun certainty.

My objection to the CC math I have seen is the idea that, completely eliminated from the realm of possibility is, you know something and you know it so cold you can grab it by the throat and kill it.

Sorry for the aggressive tone!

[Albion Wilde]

Ping!

[Albion Wilde]

For what it's worth, here's some Michelle Malkin opinion on the program as a whole:

Get To Know the Common Core Marketing Overlords

[RinaseaofDs]

I am actually happy to hear about the English side. The math side isn’t an improvement, unfortunately.

Some of the stuff I’ve seen is baffling, and so convoluted, that it appears the authors were going out of their way to be obtuse.

What I fear is the federalization of education, and it appears Common Core is a first step. Education was the province of states, with Uncle Sugar stepping in to provide funding for lunches and other enhanced curricular items.

The 10th Amendment is such a blurry line now that initiatives like this are met with wariness, to be generous, and outright hostility to be more realistic.

All of this to point out the obvious - the FedGov lies so often and about so many things that almost any initiative they undertake - for good or for ill - is going to be lost in the distrust.

I came from CA, grew up there, and I wouldn’t raise a kid there any more. Same with NY, MA, and other blue states. Fact is it is hard to find a piece of coastline that’s still conservative. It feels like a gangrenous rot to the middle of the country, like you could lop off the east and west coast and you may be able to save the patient.

I applaud that you are an educator, and I encourage you to continue in that all-important pursuit. I appreciate your assessment of the English CC stuff. Anything else you can contribute would be great.

[9YearLurker]

Thanks for offering your view. You are indeed on the front lines.

But I thought a major requirement of the common core was to move away from reading so much fiction, and to emphasize nonfiction texts—which in any of the curricula I’ve seen have been Leftist EPA documents or some other such nonsense.

Is that not the case?

[workerbee]

Thank you for your informed input. Our experience so far has been that the English portion is somewhat of an improvement, as well; e.g., my kids are having actually “spelling” lessons versus crappy “word study”. The math portion is horrendous and teachers have admitted to me (off the record, of course) that they hate it as well. Unfortunately, their hands are tied. Fortunately, at least for my kids, their father is a math expert and is able to navigate them through.

On principle, however, I would like to see an end to all the beaurocracy (ESP. federal) involvement in the schools and let local districts and teachers make decisions about what and how things are taught. Hey, I can dream.

[bravo whiskey]

funny answers. the napoleon answer should have been HE DIDN'T DIE IN A BATTLE but......

in 1968-69 i had a great english teacher. he hated teaching grammar but knew how important it was so he condensed the basics into 2 class periods. poor spelling and grammar cost at least 1 grade point. we did a lot of reading and interpreting of poetry which i really enjoyed. one thing he did was extemporaneous speaking. every class period he would throw out a topic or word, anything (robert kennedy, the color blue, space) give us 2 minutes to think about it and then pick someone to give a 2 minute speech. we also did current events debates.

[aimhigh]

When you can use the Bible in the class, let me know.

[rlmorel]

I wouldn't have approached the subject with the tone you did, blaming the dislike of Common Core on things such as dislike of teachers and such.

Bill Whittle, in the link below, has encapsulated for me EXACTLY why I am adamantly opposed to Common Core.

The problem you are likely to have, and I can't say I blame you because I tend to react the same, is that you seem to personalize it. If you do "X" and someone criticizes "X" (not you, per se, but "X") then it is human nature to be set against that criticism, even if it has validity.

This is a difficult forum for that, I know. I live in Massachusetts, and I find it exceedingly difficult not to personalize the valid criticisms I often read here. Anyway, if you can bring yourself to, watch the link. It explains how many of us feel. It isn't anti-teacher. It is primarily anti-monolithic government bureaucracy.

Bill Whittle "Afterburner: The Cookie Cutter Curriculum".

Please take the time to watch this, if you can. It is a stunningly brilliant and entertaining commentary by Bill Whittle on Common Core, though I suspect you many not agree with it. It does explain the attitude of many conservatives on this issue.

[FoundinTexas]

I was a teacher for 20 years in Texas. I am still working in public education. Texas is not a Common Core state, we have our our set of mandated knowledge and skills for each grade level. Many schools were using Cscope that was created by Texas Educational Service Centers to help small schools who did not have the money to create their own curriculum. I taught World History using Cscope for 4 years and thought that it supported my conservative values. It taught that America was exceptional. It allowed me to compare and contrast the major world religions. It used lots of primary documents and included excerpts from The Bible. What could possibly be wrong with that? Well, I believe that the BIG testing commpany didn’t like it. They weren’t able to sell teachers lots of textbooks, ancillary materials and resources. Cscope was killed by short-sighted politicians who probably have “let us say” a conflict of interest. Do I sound bitter? You betcha. Cscope was good. It was not perfect, but what is? I know on freerepublic that being a supporter of public education(much less a public school teacher) gets you attacked, but I am a conservative Christian who was called to teach. Many public school teachers are trying to be that tiny light that shows God’s love to children who have never experienced God. I do get so tired of being the enemy of fellow conservatives. I promise that I am not the enemy. Please pray for teachers and students and try not to attack us so vehemently. Do not give up on us. Not every child in the whole United States can be taught, or should be taught at home. Not every teacher deserves your scorn. Again, please pray for us.

[Dick Bachert]

I gratumated frum on uf da erli comun corpse skuls and gots a grate job rite awey. Als I hadda du was lurn a frekuentli usd fras “U want fryes wid dat?”

[EricT.]

Thank you for your service. In my opinion, a conservative teacher in CA is the same as a Christian missionary in Mecca. I value your efforts and wish there were millions more like you.

Please ignore the cranks who let others do their thinking for them. Unfortunately, many FReepers are just angry old farts who want to bitch and moan over things they know little about. I see it all the time. I may start referring to them as the “Get off my lawn you damned kids!” crowd. (I almost became one of them, too, until my loving wife pointed out the constant negativity in me. Her intervention made me a happier and nicer person.)

Thank you for (hopefully) adding some fodder for critical thinking to this debate over Common Core. From what I’ve seen, the math and science is horrible. But I’m happy to hear that English is an improvement. I have seen too many young people writing out words in text shorthand and displaying an alarming inability to format and punctuate a coherent sentence of any complexity.

[PeterPrinciple]

. Okay, flame away.

---

You raise some good points if true. And reading classics is a good thing in our minds.

The problem is that anything that can be centralized can be perverted. It does not stay a good thing. We have seen it time and time again.

My biggest problem is the centralization to the federal govt. These should be state issues. But it comes down to who controls the money.......................

[PeterPrinciple]

. Okay, flame away.

---

You raise some good points if true. And reading classics is a good thing in our minds.

The problem is that anything that can be centralized can be perverted. It does not stay a good thing. We have seen it time and time again.

My biggest problem is the centralization to the federal govt. These should be state issues. But it comes down to who controls the money.......................

[strider44]

No flames here. I’m sure you work very hard. My kids are in public school in Mass. I’ve notice they’re given a great deal of leeway in choosing books. My oldest son almost exclusively wants to read about history and warfare, especially WWII. His teachers are very supportive. He’s also cranked through half of the Hardy Boys books. Not bad for a third grader.

The bigger point is it’s up to parents to push their kids into reading as a habit. 2 hours of reading instead of 2 hours of video games for example. Unfortunately, many parents are lazy or are exhausted single parents. As a public school teacher you have to deal with the entire spectrum. I’m sure it’s difficult at times.

Keep up the good work!