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To: Kevmo; betty boop; TXnMA
Matter cannot move faster than the speed of light. It will however be moved additionally at whatever rate the universe, the space/time continuum, is expanding.

In the very early universe of the inflationary model, the universe expanded from a singularity to about the size of a grapefruit at a rate faster than the speed of light.

The point is moot except for conjecture involving faster than light (FTL) travel whether spacecraft or photon.

The former case would entail a geometric solution thus scifi scripts involving bending of space/time, wormholes, etc.

The latter is a real world quandary when considering quantum entanglement which is to say where the quantum states of two or more objects have to be described with reference to one another regardless of the extent to which they may be spatially separated.

In sum, the measurement of one of two entangled photons will determine the other even if it is 10 kilometers away, on the moon, in another galaxy, etc. This violates the speed of light limitation but the solution, I suspect, rests with higher dimensional dynamics. In other words, the photon is not moving faster than the speed of light in 4D.

165 posted on 02/23/2014 8:41:51 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; babygene

the measurement of one of two entangled photons will determine the other even if it is 10 kilometers away, on the moon, in another galaxy, etc. This violates the speed of light limitation but the solution, I suspect, rests with higher dimensional dynamics. In other words, the photon is not moving faster than the speed of light in 4D.
***That would suggest that the INFORMATION moves much faster than the speed of light. I’m not quite convinced that means that MATTER or or SPace (which includes Matter) or Space*Time moves faster than light. It suggests that “tachyons” are completely massless and also bound to eachother within photons, and perhaps within other particles or physical systems.

Matter cannot move faster than the speed of light. It will however be moved additionally at whatever rate the universe, the space/time continuum, is expanding.
***which is... faster than the speed of light, for a few microseconds.

In the very early universe of the inflationary model, the universe expanded from a singularity to about the size of a grapefruit at a rate faster than the speed of light.
***That means we’re stuck with a rapidly decaying Speed Of Light Function, doesn’t it?


166 posted on 02/23/2014 8:51:39 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Alamo-Girl
This violates the speed of light limitation

It does not; there is no "speed of light limitation" in physics, per se. There is only a requirement that any two observers in different Lorentz frames observe causality in the same way. The state vector of entangled particles is one state vector. A measurement is the application of the operator corresponding to the entangled observable which requires the state vector to collapse to an eigenstate, but the observer who has not done the measurement has no idea what the eigenstate is. Therefore, no information has been transmitted from the location where the measurement was done to the correlated location, and the observer at the correlated location must still do a measurement, even if the state vector is now "known" to be an an eigenstate by the original measurer. Because no information has been transmitted, no causality violations can occur.

but the solution, I suspect, rests with higher dimensional dynamics. In other words, the photon is not moving faster than the speed of light in 4D.

Relativity is already four-dimensional, so you must mean five-D. But if the measurement produced an eigenstate of its operator in the entangled state vector by way of a higher dimension which was space-like or time-like, causality violations would be possible in 5-space. The hidden dimension [if that is your explanation for the violations of local realism present in EPR] would give rise to observers who were always inside each other's light cone in Minkowski space [4-D] but who could be in opposite domains of causality in 5-D.

Not outlawed, but it would be strange.

And you would have to have an explanation for why fundamental interactions [gravity, say] which ordinarily have dynamical effects do not propagate through a time/space-like dimension...

173 posted on 02/23/2014 11:49:28 PM PST by FredZarguna (Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!)
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