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To: ClearCase_guy
In the theory of evolution, life in one Kingdom, or one Plylum will (given enough time) change (evolve) into a different Kingdom or Phylum.

Please show me, if you can, any reference where an actual scientist alleges this to be true, or even makes such a notion a part of the Theory of Evolution. I don't want a "caricature scientist" conjured up in some creation lab, I want a REAL one.

I don't expect an answer, BTW, I don't think you can give me such a legit reference to such a bizarre notion.

147 posted on 02/05/2014 6:46:10 PM PST by John Valentine (Deep in the Heart of Texas)
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To: John Valentine
I'm not going to give you a reference -- but I don't see why I should. What I said is not new or odd in any way. Every evolutionist must believe this.

All life has a common ancestor, right?
Life begins as a single cell organism. Call it a plant, call it an animal -- I don't care.
From that starting point, we get additional life forms. The order and succession does not matter. Worms, jellyfish, you name it. The evolution of life is a progression.
Along the way, we get mollusks and we get dogs. And apes.
Again, I don't care about the order, but if this sort of progression is expected -- and I do not think any evolutionist would disagree that it is expected -- then at various points, classification boundaries such as Kingdoms and Phyla would necessarily be crossed.

From a Biblical standpoint, no such classification boundaries need to be crossed, but Evolution says there is one starting point -- and everything which follows must necessarily cross boundary after boundary as the millions of years of evolution roll on.

150 posted on 02/05/2014 6:59:09 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (Anti-Complacency League! Baby!)
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To: John Valentine
I thought of a Scientist for you: Stephen J. Gould --

From Wikipedia:

Gould argued that evolution's drive was not towards complexity, but towards diversification. Because life is constrained to begin with a simple starting point ( like bacteria), any diversity resulting from this start, by random walk, will have a skewed distribution and therefore be perceived to move in the direction of higher complexity. But life, Gould argued, can also easily adapt towards simplification, as is often the case with parasites.

The thing to note here is the “simple starting point (like bacteria)” and the notion that diversity then leads life toward new forms. We don’t have to say “higher” forms. We don’t have to talk about “Progress”. But we start with bacteria and we end up with parasites – or Apes. Not that one is better than the other, but they are significantly different.

Gould did important work on the Cambrian Explosion, which really involves the emergence of new Phyla.

The Cambrian Explosion (500 mya) was an occurrence in which life consisted of certain, somewhat basic kinds – a small number of Phyla. But then (relatively suddenly) those Phyla became a great many other Phyla. An explosion of new Phyla appeared, branching off and adding significant diversity to life-forms on Earth. Whole new Phyla? How often does THAT happen?? Well, since the Cambrian Explosion, ummmmmmm, not very often. Which I think is very weird. Phyla were popping out of nowhere 500 million years ago, and then change at that level pretty much dried up. Why would that happen?? So the problem of explaining how new Phyla arise is very real, but let’s be very concrete and operate at a lower, simpler level – Class.

Evolution of land-dwelling creatures.

Conodonta (jawless eels) were primitive animals. Over time, we end up with jawed fish which any child would recognize as a fish.

Then we get something along the line of a “walking catfish” type of creature (Class: Actinopterygii).
This creature spends some time out of the water, but is primarily a water-dweller, with gills.
Over millions of years, this creature evolves into something we might call an amphibian – it spends some time IN the water, but is primarily a land-dweller, with lungs (Class: Amphibia)
Once creatures live on land -- over millions of years -- we see reptiles (Class: Reptilia) and later we see mammals (Class: Mammalia).

This is diversification described below the level of Phyla and far above the level of Species. I’m talking about Class but there are then lower boundaries such as Order, Genus, Family – you need to cross all of these boundaries if you go from jawless eel to a specific mammal such as an Ape.

We don’t even have a clear understanding of species and how one species becomes another. And that transition is MUCH simpler than a higher order boundary. You want to tell me that little Eohippus became an Arabian Stallion – heck, it’s not so much of a leap. It’s a bit like a wolf being the ancestor of a Chihuahua. If we operate at the level of Breeds, pretty much everyone sees things the same way. But go from gills to lungs or two chambered heart to four chambers, or no spinal column to a set of vertebrae. That’s hard to swallow. Speciation has not been demonstrated – but that’s not the hard part. Phyla, Class, Order, Genus, Family. Evolution has a tough road to travel.

152 posted on 02/05/2014 7:50:06 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (Anti-Complacency League! Baby!)
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