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To: The Cajun
The second example is not an example of "spooky action at a distance," so it is not a flavor of anything except proving my point and disproving yours. In the non-quantum formulation of gravity (which is the only rigorous theory we currently have) space is bent by gravitational objects. This bending is propagated over time and the speed of propagation does not exceed the speed of light.

When (for example) a star goes nova and masses on the order of many solar masses (10^31 kg) are blasted into space objects under its gravitational influence light years away do not suddenly start drifting free because of the (now) lighter mass of the nova remnant. That will take an amount of time equal to how many light years away they are.

The sun is eight light minutes away. If it suddenly disappeared earth would not immediately fly out of its orbit (it would take eight light minutes.) Pluto wouldn't tangent off into the galaxy for 5 1/2 hours.

In the quantum mechanical version, interactions are mediated by gauge bosons. No gauge boson, including the graviton, moves faster than light. So in the future, when we have a fully quantum theory of gravity, you will still be mistaken.

As for your first example, you were inattentive. I specifically said that the quantum numbers associated with materiality (like mass and energy) cannot be superluminally conveyed. Spin is not such a quantity.

The collapse of wave functions (more properly state vectors) in entangled states can produce apparently nonlocal effects, but these nonlocal effects do not transmit material, and they do not transfer any information. There is no way a remote observer measuring his "half" of an eigenstate can know that his measurement result was produced by the collapse of the "other half" of the system by a remote event, or simply by his own measurement. Thus spin flipping, while Über Kewl, transmits no information, and cannot be used to send FTL signals. [Google: "Quantum no communication theorem" if you're interested in details.]

Sorry. Still no cigar.

2.9979 x 108 m/s. Not just a good idea. It's The Law.

169 posted on 08/30/2013 8:38:52 PM PDT by FredZarguna (2.9979 x 10^8 m/s. Not just a good idea. It's The Law.)
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To: FredZarguna
This bending is propagated over time and the speed of propagation does not exceed the speed of light.

Exceeding the speed of light was not the purpose of that example sport.
The *spooky action* is the *great and observable* influence two objects are having on each other at billions of light years separation.
How does your space-time geometry hold up under those observations?

The collapse of wave functions (more properly state vectors) in entangled states can produce apparently nonlocal effects, but these nonlocal effects do not transmit material, and they do not transfer any information.

Apparently you say, LOL.

So you're saying that nothing, what so ever concerning their states, is transferred between distant entangled photons instantaneously at the point of wave function collapse, not talking in the least about using the phenomena for transfer of data or used for communication.
Sounds like if nothing gets transferred, the phenomena shouldn't exist and the results damn sure shouldn't be predictable, should be random, shouldn't it?

170 posted on 08/30/2013 10:01:42 PM PDT by The Cajun (Sarah Palin, Mark Levin, Ted Cruz......Nuff said.)
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