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To: Renfield

Everyone is a product of their time and culture. A Jewish friend told me that, were he in the position of a German citizen in circa 1939, he would never have done the things that the German citizens did to the Jews. I told him that if he had been raised on a diet of Germanic superiority in a subservient Progressive culture he would have believed and done exactly what they did. He denied that. He somehow felt that his twenty-first century liberal (in the Founder’s sense) view was universal and the only and obvious way to see the world.

I can easily imagine myself in the shoes of somebody raised differently. I would be the product of that upbringing; not the product I am now at all. This failure to see life as others might see it is a huge liberal (as in Progressive/Socialist) failing on the part of Democrats in general.


10 posted on 09/22/2012 7:00:42 AM PDT by Gen.Blather
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To: Gen.Blather
Fwiw, there were some people who saw Hitler for what he was, and either fled or resisted.

I do agree with your main point, it's often harder to see what's happening before your very eyes, just look at the many people on FR that think it's okay to leave Bambi in office........

14 posted on 09/22/2012 7:05:12 AM PDT by Lakeshark (I don't care for Mitt; the alternative is unthinkable)
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To: Gen.Blather

Yes, true. Had the South won the Civil War, I might have been master of a plantation myself; my great-great-grandfather, a colonel in the Virginia Militia (who, by the way, was with Lee at Appomattox), owned 3000 acres of Virginia piedmont land, where he raised tobacco, doubtless with the help of many slaves. The family also owned the local general store; as there was no money available during the war, they allowed all of their neighbors to buy on credit, and following the collapse of Confederate currency after the war, those neighbors were unable to pay their debts. The store went bankrupt, and with it, the plantation; my ancestor had to sell his plantation to pay off his debts, at a fraction of its value.

He lived well into the 20th century, a penniless, blind, forotten war hero.


16 posted on 09/22/2012 7:10:00 AM PDT by Renfield (Turning apples into venison since 1999!)
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To: Gen.Blather

Hi Gen. Blather,

I do agree that we are a product of our upbringing to a large extent. What I think about fashion, morals, behavior etc is rooted a lot in the environment I live in. For example, I think nothing of a woman dressed in a normal bathing suit at the beach (I only use the word “normal” to separate out anyone who is visualizing thongs or micro bikinis”. However, in India, a country that I visit for business, women typically will wear bathing suits that incorporate shorts into them (kinda like Olympic swimmers). Neither Hindus nor Christians have anything against bathing suits (unlike Muslims) but different cultures make each comfortable with skin at a different level

However, I have to say Slavery falls in a completely different spectrum. Since the New Testament, Western civilization has known that Slavery is immoral. If you are a Christian then you know that Jesus died for to free EVERYONE (from Sin.. but one can argue for any human bondage too). To “own” another human being runs completely contrary to the New Testament.

This is not a new fact. In the pre Civil War South, all moral arguments about slavery were made solely on the Old Testament. Some people in the South conveniently “forgot” that God had made a NEW Covenant with his children by sending Jesus.

This is what led to a huge moral split in the country. Non Southern based Christian churches were appalled that the Bible was being misconstrued by the Slave owners.

From the VERY first days of slavery, there was a huge moral and religious opposition to it. You can look up hundreds of thousands of citations on it. The Christian churches in the North led the fight against slavery. Thus it is very hard to argue that someone would grow up in the South and not be aware that there were COGENT and well presented moral and Christian arguments against slavery.

Almost universally, the Slave owners had economic reasons for slavery and it is my conjecture that each of them (in some part of their heart) knew what they were doing was wrong but economic necessity lead to keep using slaves. After all, the threat of financial ruin can be a powerful motivator.

I see many parallels today with Abortion. 50% of our populace supports abortion, mostly for selfish reasons (career, not the “right time” etc). When abortion is finally banned (as it will be) some historians will wonder if people back in the “savage 20th century” knew that abortion was wrong. My answer then (assuming I live that long) will be the same as it is now: Yes, we knew it was wrong but selfishness led us to continue the practice


19 posted on 09/22/2012 7:13:59 AM PDT by SoftwareEngineer
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To: Gen.Blather
I really do recommend you read HITLER'S WILLING EXECUTIONERS, by Goldhagen. It is an absolutely extraordinary expose on the culture of the time.

What I don't quite understand is...

Forgive my ignorance but it seems to be the principal contention of the venerable Smithsonian that in the old days, private individuals, rather than the government, enslaved persons.

In the realm of our new owners, of course, the slaves who refuse to work are rewarded, whereas the slaves who work are punished.

Perhaps Jefferson saw what was coming, and wanted to end the business outright?
24 posted on 09/22/2012 7:20:07 AM PDT by golux
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To: Gen.Blather
I can imagine our offspring a century forward tearing down all of the monuments to all of the great men before the abolition of “carnivorism.”

Even liberal icons like Martin Luther King.

“Sure, that's all true, King did some very good things, but he ATE MEAT! That is UNFORGIVABLE!!”

(That is, if our offspring are not huddled around camp fires in a post-electrical world.)

29 posted on 09/22/2012 7:29:14 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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