Posted on 09/08/2012 9:03:55 AM PDT by Why So Serious
Here is a better way to look at this ... the government should not be in the marriage business, and marriage is not a political issue. Gay people, for the most part, express a desire to get married for the benefits that are extended to married couple [rights like Social Security benefits, child care tax credits, Family and Medical Leave to take care of loved ones, and COBRA healthcare for spouses and children]. Government should allow people to engage in civil unions [this includes men and women], only. Marriage should be left to the churches. Then, any one can have a civil union [man/lady, lady/lady, man/man, mom/son, dad/daughter, brother/sister, person/multiple people] which extends to that civil union the governmental rights that married couple now enjoy which include the marriage tax credit, right to pass assets without taxation upon death, the right to make life ending decisions [pulling the plug]. The whole issue dies in a blink. This should not have to be a political thing. Moving the line in the sand never works ... better just to erase it. I believe that my wife and I are married in GOD's eyes and believe that we have a civil union in the eyes of government. It should not be anything different then a partnership, LLC, or LP.
I agree with post # 25. And there seem to be a great deal of reasons for government to be in the business of marriage, because it has an interest in children and the social order. I just think gay marriage should not be legalized.
Gay people, for the most part, express a desire to get married for the benefits that are extended to married couple [rights like Social Security benefits, child care tax credits, Family and Medical Leave to take care of loved ones, and COBRA healthcare for spouses and children].
Government should allow people to engage in civil unions [this includes men and women], only.
Marriage should be left to the churches.
Then, any one can have a civil union [man/lady, lady/lady, man/man, mom/son, dad/daughter, brother/sister, person/multiple people] which extends to that civil union the governmental rights that married couple now enjoy which include the marriage tax credit, right to pass assets without taxation upon death, the right to make life ending decisions [pulling the plug].
The whole issue dies in a blink. This should not have to be a political thing. Moving the line in the sand never works ... better just to erase it.
I believe that my wife and I are married in GOD's eyes and believe that we have a civil union in the eyes of government. It should not be anything different then a partnership, LLC, or LP.
the marriage tax credit = Why exactly is the government interested in giving a tax credit to married folk? Because they care that you love this person? Hardly. They extend a credit because that couple is an ASSET to the culture in that they are the potentially procreative seedbed and rearing location for the next generation. Beyond that a government doesn't have one bit of interest in whom you choose to have your jollies with.
right to pass assets without taxation upon death: see above,
the right to make life ending decisions [pulling the plug]...A person can do that contractually with anyone. That adheres automatically with real married folks, again because they are the potentially procreative union of male/female.
So we do away with marriage licenses
Yes. The government has no business in the marriage business.
Marriage belongs to God, not the state.
To redeem this situation, the (conservative) churches must agree to restore marriage as a sacrament reserved for their churches and their rules. This requires several things:
1) They will only recognize marriages done by their churches. If they are married outside of the church, or another church with similar rules, that marriage will not be recognized by the church.
2) Those currently married outside the churches will need to be at least administratively remarried by the churches.
3) Secular recognition of their marriage is optional. That is, if married by their church they are married, whether they have a government marriage certificate or not.
4) Likewise divorce is determined by their church, and they must agree to ecumenical divorce if one or both leave the church. Optionally, terms of divorce might be prenuptially determined by the church before marriage.
Lots and lots of other rules, but the idea is to take back the sacrament of marriage from the state.
I am a weirdo? I believe that if you and I start a business as partners and that if upon my death that you should be given all the assets without penalty/punishment/taxation, that makes me a weirdo? What you are not smart enough to understand is that if you and your wife build a life together and one of you die the other gets all assets tax free. If you do not have a spouse [for any reason], but you have children there is no way that you can pass those assets, at death, without penalty/taxation. Why? If you make a million dollars and you pay taxes on that money whatever is left IS YOURS' to do with as you wish. If you die your wife gets it [thru some relationship set up by government], yet if your wife passes before you your assets cannot be passed to your children because of a relationship that is not allow. Who is weird? There should be government recognized relationship that allows everyone to enter into an agreement that allows for the same benefits that my marriage allows me. That has nothing to do with sex, you dope. If it does get the government over to my house quickly because I want the government to inform my wife that marriage means sex.
If you are right all you need is for the government stops recognizing the institution of marriage and ... WALLA! Homos have what we married couples have. You assume that they will want what we DON'T have. If they then want a "marriage" tell them to find a church the recognizes it, or start one.That is not their battle.
When you say “the church” what do you mean?
The church is people not a building.
I guess I’m now an oddity on this site, but I LIKE the government promoting marriage, and ONLY opposite-sex marriage, for I think that this the basis of a healthy and strong country.
I don’t think that I’m wise enough to second-guess centuries of history, but others may be smarter than I.
I would also like my kids to grow up in a country that at least somewhat resembles the one that I grew up in, but I guess a lot of people here would rather have the ‘change’ involved in turning relationships into free-for-alls.
Oh well, perhaps there are other sites committed to family values...I shall look.
Why is that weird?
The state can dictate what a civil union is, only God can define marriage.
God has already defined it, the state has no business in the marriage business.
I meant conservative and orthodox churches. You need to somewhat parse these days because of the conservative-liberal schisms. There are also some similarities and differences between churches in how they recognize the marriage sacrament.
The government being involved in marriage licensing, is a relatively modern construct, before that churches performed the marriage ceremony because marriage is a religious issue.
Change the tax law you disgusting ignoramus, instead of allowing your creepy civil unions.
Ok. Just making sure what you were going for.
So for me that would also include Spirit filled Bible teaching/believing nondenominational churches.
“The government being involved in marriage licensing, is a relatively modern construct, before that churches performed the marriage ceremony because marriage is a religious issue.”
...and you guys think for a moment that once the government is cleared out of the way regarding marriage, they won’t come for the churches? That’s already happening in some countries when Christian leaders talk about traditional marriages.
And you really think that the state will prevent that if that intrusion happens here, just because they issue licenses......that is very naive on your part.
God Almighty has defined marriage, and the state has no business being in the marriage business.
The country that you grew up in had Catholic priest molesting children and then quietly being moved to other parishes so that they could again do it to other children. The country you grew up in had a Penn State coach molesting boys in the shower for 30 years while others looked the other way and pretended it was not happening. Is that what you want your kids growing up in. A country where we "pretend" that this sick stuff does not happen. Look son, everyone that you see together is a man and a woman. Oh, and if you see anything else it is just a figment of your imagination. I do not need the state to deny basic rights of survivorship in order to teach my kid what is right and wrong.
A civil union is based on the concept of marriage.
Marriage is a cornerstone of civilization.
You redesign civil union into something weirdo and you weaken civilization.
That’s why.
Yeah, let's do that too. You see this is why the government is fighting the gay marriage thing. They know all to well that it is a big money maker for them. What if the government was more like GOD and did not recognize divorce. What side would you fall on then? If government recognizes what GOD recognizes .. that marriage is between one man and one woman, then what if the government said that they do not recognize divorce [GOD does not]. Would you support that. In fact it would interest me to know how many of you people that argue that marriage is between one man and one woman have actually been married more than once.
Yes, marriage and families are the corner stone of civilization, and it is also correct licensing of marriages is a modern construct.
I can say with certainly, before the government got involved in licensing marriage, there were families and marriage.
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