The Real Donald Trump - "Obama is petrified of birther issue..Watch what's coming!"

Twitterlog ^

[Perdogg]

@BarackObama is petrified of the birther issue so they go on the offensive to try & make the Republicans feel guilty & stupid. Watch what's coming!

[kabar]

Obama Sr never lived with Anne Dunham. No one has seen the marriage certificate, just the divorce decree. Within a few weeks of Obama's birth, Dunham was in Washington State attending school. Obama Sr. was nothing more than a sperm donor if that. And how real is that one photo in the airport in Hawaii? FDid Obama ever have any correspondence with this father?

What is most revealing in the movie is Ann Dunham praised Obama Sr and made him out to be a hero to young Barry. The fact that Ann made Obama Sr out to be such a great person is truly non sequitur.

Did the movie provide a source for this assertion? Given what is in the divorce papers and her subsequent marriage to Soetero and adoption of Obama by him, I find it hard to believe that Dunham praised Obama Sr and made him into a hero. I suspect this is another fabrication from Barry's autobiography (written by Bill Ayers.)

[kabar]

Trump won’t say or do any birther stuff at the convention. I am sure he was told by the organizers not to touch it for fear of it overshadowing everything else. Not going to happen.

[PA-RIVER]

For example, can a man turn 18 and become a dual citizen and then run for president? He still has his natural born citizenship per your theory.

We cant start making up new rules to fit our desired outcome. Either the citizenship is pure or it is not. Obama is not, and I don't give a crap how or when he gained all the extra citizenships, five years old or forty, renounced or otherwise, based on law passed 100 years after the constitution was written.

Twisting this shit into a pretzel is getting ridiculous, and this is why born of two citizens is the only correct answer. It leaves no room for foreign influence.

[OKSooner]

"I refuse to support Romney with money so instead I go to google and click on Obama’s (pay per click) google ads multiple times. "

Hey! That's a fun idea!

[The Sons of Liberty]

It’s one thing to have proof, in my mind there has always been some proof available, but it’s another thing to get the parties that are SUPPOSED to act on that proof to actually act - congress, the courts, The Electoral College!

[melancholy]

I sure would like to see his college records. No one is talking about that. That is where Obemba is vulnerable.

I agree with you. I talked about this for years but I don't have that much pull, unfortunately.

[hoosiermama]

Maybe Trump has vetted the “white side” of the family, and discovered that great-grandpap was not just a bookkeeper. His grandmother (madelyn) who became his legal guardian and in charge of the trust (list on schedule E of his tax returns) was the head of the trust department in the HI bank. She assumed the position as guardian shortly after her father’s death and probate would have been finished.

[melancholy]

Is, or was? Important distinction, you understand. Unless proof can be obtained that he held onto that citizenship past age 18.

This is why the education records and applications are paramount. If he applied as a foreign student, it would answer your question.

However, even if he WAS an Indonesian citizen, when did he naturalize? Why does his SS# fail E-Verify?

If he's still a foreigner OR he is a naturalized American, he couldn't run for POTUS. However, this will explain his SS# is a forgery.

As you see, I didn't even bring up his presumed father BO Sr., was a foreigner anyway.

IMO, 0b0z0 is the highest-ranking illegal alien in the USA.

[stephenjohnbanker]

” I’m very happy if Trump took the lead on this. He can handle the heat and could put bugs in the ears of a lot of voters without Romney getting any blowback.”

I’m certain this is the plan too. The setup is perfect for it. I have it on good authority that Arpaio has a September
nutcracker planned. Little doubt that Trump will be a part of it.
Look, we all know that Obama is dirty back to his teen years. The last thing he wants is exposure : )

[Meet the New Boss]

He was a minor. The US accepts dual nationality. Obama never lost his US citizenship.

"Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered under Section 349(a)(5) of the INA, a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation, is not subject to duress or undue influence, and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship."

THE US ONLY ACCEPTS DUAL NATIONALITY IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES.

Kabar knows this.

There ARE OTHER WAYS TO LOSE YOUR US NATIONALITY BESIDES FORMALLY RENOUNCING IT.

Kabar knows this, too, because I explained it to him in detail in this thread:

HOW OBAMA MAY HAVE LOST HIS US CITIZENSHIP

If Obama did something ON HIS OWN APPLICATION AS A YOUNG ADULT, perhaps during or just prior to his college years, such as

(a)obtain an Indonesian passport,

(b)renew an Indonesian passport or

(c)make a formal declaration to the government of Indonesia that he desired to continue to be an Indonesian citizen,

in circumstances where Indonesia required that such a person in effect forswear United States nationality or any other nationality because Indonesia refused to confer such documents or status on someone who was a citizen of the United States or any other country, then Obama may have LOST HIS US CITIZENSHIP under our laws as in effect at the time.

The problem for Obama is that Indonesia did NOT permit dual nationality. If you wanted to be Indonesian, you were not allowed to maintain any other citizenship.

If he did so purport to forswear United States nationality, or if what he did would be considered tantamount to obtaining naturalization upon his own application within the meaning of U.S. law, then he may well have lost his United States citizenship by virtue of such action, according to the statutory provisions of our law in effect during that time period.

[kabar]

Same response. Lots of assumptions. Namely that Obama past the age of 18 kept/regained his Indonesian citizenship and was issued an Indonesian passport. Highly doubtful given the fact that his father had already divorced his mother and the daughter, Maya, from the union of Dunham and Soetero, held and holds US citizenship. On what basis would Obama be able to request Indonesian citizenship?

In any event, the USG would not pursue Obama on this. The only damage would be political if such an event ever occurred. You would need a copy of his Indonesian passport issued after he was 18. There are millions of Americans holding dual nationality.

I don't need you to explain citizenship and nationality laws. I know from personal experience as well as 28 years of professional experience about the laws governing them. You can speculate about all kinds of things, but unless you have actual proof, it is just that, mere speculation.

[Meet the New Boss]

No, YOU claim that Obama could not possibly have lost his US citizenship.

THEREFORE YOU ARE THE ONE MAKING ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT FACTS WE DO NOT KNOW.

Let’s say Obama gained Indonesian citizen as a child. This is corroborated by the one document on point that we have, his school record from Indonesia which lists him as an Indonesian citizen.

Becoming an Indonesian citizen as a child does NOT mean he lost his US citizenship. You are right about that. That’s about the only thing you are right about.

How do we know that Obama did not make use of his Indonesian citizenship on a college application in order to get a leg up on admission? Or financial aid?

And if he did that, perhaps he heard from his mother that if wanted to keep up his Indonesian citizenship, he needed to make an official declaration to Indonesia or else he would lose it at age 21.

If he did that, that would be a slam dunk legally. He would, as an adult, on his own application, be obtaining a foreign nationalization for the period beginning age 21. THAT IS A NO-NO UNDER OUR LAWS.

Is that what he in fact did? I don’t know. And neither do you.

[advertising guy]

here dumbass

http://www.teapartytribune.com/2012/08/17/support-sheriff-joe-and-his-call-for-congressional-investigation-of-fraudulent-documents/

[DManA]

Hey genious, how you gonna get this past the democrat media gate keepers?

[kabar]

Let's suppose the moon is made of green cheese.

Let’s say Obama gained Indonesian citizen as a child. This is corroborated by the one document on point that we have, his school record from Indonesia which lists him as an Indonesian citizen

This is not proof of Indonesian citizenship or that he was issued an Indonesian passport. Obama's mother remained a US citizen. We have no indication as to what proof was required by the school to make such a determination. Maybe the parents lied or used adoption papers to register him at the school. The document says he was born in Honolulu. And his name is Barry Soetoro. Do you accept the fact that he was born in Honolulu or that he was a Muslim, which were also on the form?

As someone who has lived a couple of years in Indonesia, it is easy to buy compliance. Corruption is rife. No dout given their financial situation, the Soetoros could not afford to send their child to an International School. Perhaps they bribed someone at the school and got him admitted. See I can make assumptions too.

How do we know that Obama did not make use of his Indonesian citizenship on a college application in order to get a leg up on admission? Or financial aid?

How do we know he ever had Indonesian citizenship? The school record is not proof for the reasons I provided. Did the school require proof of citizenship? If so, what? Was Obama ever issued an Indonesian passport during the period he was living there age 6-10? Dunham divorced Soetero in 1980 filing for divorce in Hawaii. Obama was almost 19 at the time.

If he did that, that would be a slam dunk legally. He would, as an adult, on his own application, be obtaining a foreign nationalization for the period beginning age 21. THAT IS A NO-NO UNDER OUR LAWS.

LOL. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, what a great time we would all have. The burden of proof is on the government and you to prove that he did that. Without any proof, then it is just part of the unknown that surrounds this guy. It should be easy to check and see if Indonesia ever issued him a passport. Has a request for this information ever been made to the Indonesian government for this information, and if so, what was their response?

[Meet the New Boss]

YOU ARE THE ONE CLAIMING TO KNOW THE FACTS.

YOU ARE THE ONE CLAIMING THAT IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE FOR HIM TO LOSE US CITIZENSHIP.

As I have pointed out to you, it WAS possible for him to lose his US citizenship, depending on what the facts are.

I don’t know whether Obama was in fact an Indonesian citizen. You don’t know either. The school record says he was.

If he was a citizen, I don’t know whether they obtained an Indonesian passport for little Barry. You don’t know either.

If so, I don’t know whether he renewed it or applied for a new one as an adult. You don’t know either.

I don’t know whether he used Indonesian citizenship in college. You don’t know either.

I don’t know whether he filed an official declaration with Indonesia so he could continue to be a citizen after age 21. You don’t know either.

Here’s what I know.

I know from our previous thread that you know very little about the details of this family while Barry was growing up.

I know from the FOIA correspondence with respect to Lolo’s visa status that this bunch were not scrupulously honest and would have no hesitation about trying to game the system if they thought they could get away with it.

I know that Obama himself is not an honest person. I see no reason to assume that Obama would not do something as a young adult to maintain Indonesian citizenship if he thought it would be convenient to him and if he knew it was highly unlikely the US State Dept would find out about it.

What I don’t know are the actual records, beyond the one document from Indonesia showing him as an Indonesian citizen.

But it is quite plausible that any or all these facts occurred.

When they moved to Indonesia, they didn’t know they would not be living there permanently. The US turned Lolo down for a permanent visa. They had no choice.

It would have been natural for Lolo to adopt Barry, given that he was only a toddler. He needed a father. They didn’t know in advance that the marriage would fail.

And if he adopted Barry, then it might well be the case that Barry became an Indonesian national, as stated on his school record.

This was an internationally-oriented family. Are we to assume they never traveled outside Indonesia during Barry’s young childhood? If they did, perhaps they used an Indonesian passport.

ALL OF THAT CHANGED WHEN BARRY WAS 10. Then, there were tensions in the marriage and Barry was sent to live in Hawaii.

But that doesn’t change anything that may have happened prior to when Barry was 10.

So when it came time for college, it is not implausible that Barry had in his back pocket a foreign status that he obtained years earlier. Did he make use of it?

I don’t assume without knowing what the facts are that the answer is no.

[Kenny Bunk]

Over the years since 2007, I have become convinced that "The Right" has been completely sucker-punched on the eligibility issues. That's because the eligibility issues exist on two intellectual levels: i.e., The "Constitutionalists," as led by Leo Donofrio et al, and the "Birthers," as led by Dr. Jerry and Joseph over at WND, and Dr. Orly, all of whom Obama ought to be paying, if he has not already done so, for their faithful years of providing circular purple prose that has leached any shred of credibility from those concerned with the issues.

This was already confusing, so the Left and Team Obama were provided with a built-in wedge. Enter Sheriff Joe, riding to the rescue of the "Birthers" with actual evidence. Nice Joe! Too late, but nice. Good evidence, well presented, but where do you intend to present it? If one more Freeper says, "The Court of Public Opinion," I shall cause a pack of dysenteric bloodhounds to befoul that man's lawn.

Both Constitutionalists and Birthers lose big time. The former, because no court has yet been found that will listen to the issue qua issue. The latter, because the Birthers, good people though they are, have attracted unto themselves some truly obtuse characters who belong in Faulkner's attic and have put truly suspicious and impossibly inept people out front until Sheriff Joe, who now has nowhere to go.

Team Obama, with the help of the MSM, and the inept GOP Leadership that is terrified of them, has made a confusing pile of crap of two simple issues:

(1)What is "Natural Born Citizenship"
(2) There is no proof yet of "Birth in Hawaii."

Add to this the evidence of forgery of the document released to the world as a "copy of the BC," which obviously does not match what was released to Obama's lawyer by the HIDOH. Pile on the highly irregular (to say the very least) SS#. Garnish with the highly dubious Selective Service Registration.

But why bother? It is painfully obvious that the GOP has decided in its infinite wisdom that these issues are never to be mentioned in public. The courts will not intervene. Those officials who have the constitutional authority in their states to halt the charades will not do so. Even our brave "right wing talk show hosts" have not stopped selling gold bars and sleep number mattresses for a second to mention the issue.

Indonesian citizenship? WTF? Anyone paying attention to this site, or who has a public library within 500 miles of his primary domicile already knows that American citizenship held as a minor, but removed for some reson, may be reclaimed upon reaching majority. Beside the point. Did he have it? Did he reclaim it? Bit late for those questions, isn't it? Besides, who has the official right to ask it and where? I don't, so neither do you.

Speaking of sucker punches, the GOP was completely owned by Team Obama over the faux hurricane issue. They actually cancelled Day 1 of the convention because of a mild rainy day. Any fool with access to Intellicast could see that this "Isaac Thing " was on its way to somewhere west of NOLA on Friday night. This "Hurricane" became the news ... not the Convention! And they let it!@! These doormats claim they can beat Obama?

You want Obama out? Vote him out. That will take better than the usual "50% turn-out." Work on that. Thanks to poor leadership, the eligibility issue has become the Right's answer to Wind Power, only much less well directed.

[Meet the New Boss]

“Anyone paying attention to this site, or who has a public library within 500 miles of his primary domicile already knows that American citizenship held as a minor, but removed for some reson, may be reclaimed upon reaching majority.”

Just for the record, that’s not how it works. Here is the relevant statute, in the form in effect prior to the 1986 amendments (therefore at the time relevant to Obama), with the operative language for Obama’s situation bolded so it is easier to follow:

Section 1481(a). A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization shall lose his nationality by

(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed in his behalf by a parent, guardian, or duly authorized agent, or through the naturalization of a parent having legal custody of such person: Provided That nationality shall not be lost by any person under this section as the result of the naturalization of a parent or parents while such person is under the age of twenty-one years, or as the result of a naturalization obtained on behalf of a person under twenty-one years of age by a parent, guardian, or duly authorized agent, unless such person shall fail to enter the United States to establish a permanent residence prior to his twenty-fifth birthday ….

If Obama gained Indonesian citizenship as a young child in connection with being adopted by Lolo or upon an application filed by his parents, then he never lost his US citizenship by reason of that action. Because he did move to the US and establish residence prior to age 25, his US citizenship was never actually removed, so it does not need to be reclaimed.

However, if Barry did something on his OWN application, when he was old enough to know what he was doing (say, 17 or 18, no longer a little kid (the 18 year-old bright line test was added to the statute later)), then HE IS NOT SAVED by moving to the US and establishing permanent residence prior to age 25.

That is why I would like to know whether he claimed Indonesian status as a college student. If so, was he lying or was he actually an Indonesian citizen? If the latter, did he do anything on his own application as a young adult with respect to Indonesian citizenship?

As to your larger point, if some conservatives decide to ignore the constitutional eligibility issue on the grounds that nothing is likely to come of it, that’s fine. That is a reasonable position to take. Others of us may continue to look into it.

[kabar]

As I have pointed out to you, it WAS possible for him to lose his US citizenship, depending on what the facts are.

Duh. It depends on what the facts are and as I told you last time, it is very difficult to lose US citizenship even if you want to. The danger to Obama is political. He is in no danger of losing his citizenship even if somehow he got an Indonesian passport at 18. Obama would not be prosecuted nor would there be any legal proceedings to cause him to lose his citizenship.

And if he adopted Barry, then it might well be the case that Barry became an Indonesian national, as stated on his school record.

Yet his sister Maya was and is a US citizen. And Lolo was her birth father. I have lived abroad 25 years in 9 different countries. US citizenship is highly valued and prized. It is the reason why we have birth tourism. Obama's mother kept her US citizenship and I seriously doubt she would do anything to jeopardize Obama's or Maya's or her own.

I don’t assume without knowing what the facts are that the answer is no.

And you can't assume yes. You avoided my question about whether any request has been made of the Indonesian government to ascertain if Obama was issued an Indonesian passport. And if so, what was their response. Since you profess to know so much about Obama's Indonesian connection, what's the answer?