Posted on 05/27/2012 5:48:19 AM PDT by FLAMING DEATH
The tradeoffs are that it isn’t as reliable, so you should use it only for practice or plinking. It’s also dirtier, which means more frequent cleaning.
As far as harming your gun...think of all the Makarov and other ComBloc pistols that have run nothing but steel cased 9x18 or 7.62x25 forever. If your .45 is made better than one of those, you’ve got nothing to worry about.
I really like my Colt AR-15A2 HBAR and my Colt AR-15A2 Government Carbine. I would never load them with Wolf or Tula. I’d rather spend more money on NATO-spec ammo.
I’m not sure that (expansion) is the problem either. I wouldn’t buy Tula or Wolf ammo for an AR-15 or an AK because I’ve had problems with the 45 ACP ball ammo on at least one of my 6 1911s. The 1911 in particular is a tight tolerance gun, and when it is loaded with Wolf Steel Cased 45 ACP it ALWAYS jams, every time. The casing gets jammed during extraction lodging down in the throat and the feed area.
I finally determined that Wolf has a thinner extraction rim on the casing that a typical round made of brass. The extractor can start to extract the casing but doesn’t old it securely until it can hit the ejector. Essentially, when the casing can ‘drop down’ it does. Possibly the same problem in .223
It’s not expansion. It’s lack of expansion. The steel doesn’t expand and “fill” the chamber like brass does. So, you get dirt and grit in the space around the chamber that builds up with each shot. Eventually, it wedges a round in place. Straight wall cartridges have the worst problems; tapered, the least.
And, the Wolf may well have a thinner rim, which would only exacerbate the problem.
I don’t see why mixing a round of brass wouldn’t work with pistols as well as rifles, though, provided you started with a clean chamber.
My Bersa Thunder 9 (that I borrowed) will feed and extract Wolf/Tula just fine, but occasionally doesn’t have enough power to chamber a new round. Never had a round stuck in it, though.
I’m a fanatic when it comes to accuracy. I buy good rifles, good ammo and better scopes. I’m such a lousy shot, I need every edge I can get.
I don’t run junk ammo thru a $2,000 rifle.
Personally, I like to test all my guns with as many different types of ammo as possible, so I can know what to expect should I ever need to switch for some reason. It’s good to know what your guns can/cannot handle.
I’m sure your Colts would run Tula/Wolf/Bear/whatever just fine, though.
Just don’t use it.
It (Russian ammo) is made for cheap mass produced stamped steel guns that are not over engineered as the AR is. And it is dirty. Too dirty for a direct gas impingement AR IMHO.
If you want to shoot cheap buy an AK (I did).
If you want a weapon with refinement and precision then get an AR (did that too).
-There. Best of both worlds.
PS. comments reflect prior to tragic rowboat incident...
I don’t use Russian stuff, I just reload using a 223 Lee precession press and can save my old brass, which bring the cost down to about a third the price of new brass. I buy 62gn M855 pulldowns projectiles, 25 gn of Ramshot TAC powder and #41 CCI rifle primers. Cost about 12 cents a round if I use my old Lake City or Rem brass. Cheapest I have found new 23 ammo in about 38 cents per round, maybe 37 cents if I’m lucky if I buy in bulk. Plus I’m a range rat and can always find brass laying on the ground too.
Don’t know, but I’ve measured the thinness of the Wolf steel extraction rim and it is noticeably thinner. the extractor only works in a direct pull pack mode and doesn’t ‘hold’ it for the ejector.
I’m a fanatic when it comes to practicing, and this allows me to practice all the more because of the price. I run it in all my guns, and I figure if they’ll run that, they’ll run anything.
Of course, it isn’t as accurate, but then I usually am satisfied with Minute-of-Watermelon at 150 yards, so...
Actually, I’m not a ‘reloader’....I buy the best that I can afford and I buy in bulk when I get a good deal.
When my son-in-law asked me what I had all those guns for - hunting? I told him “I didn’t by those guns to kill no animals.” Best ammo, best guns, best chance.
You would be surprised that you can reload and make brass the far exceeds and perform much better than any match commercial ammo on the market that fits your gun perfectly if you willing to experiment and much cheaper too. Most champ shooters reload their own pistol and rifle ammo for competition. Reload is a hobby in its own right and damn relaxing.
I have been wanting to get into reloading. I have a lot to learn about it first.
A couple of Appleseeds will give you an edge like you wouldn't believe. Trust me on this.
I ran three boxes of Herter 62 grain HP through my Rock River 2 weeks ago. The only malfunction to speak of was one single failure to lock the bolt open on an empty mag.
Maybe it’s the chromed chamber, I don’t know. I do keep mine meticulously clean and run it nice and wet. I’ve always been cautious using steel case ammo, though. So I keep the majority of my ammo stash brass cased.
Any thoughts?
Well, I appreciate your concern, but I’m going to continue testing, and barring a lack of problems, will probably continue to use it since it seems to work for me, albeit with caveats. I can live with those caveats.
I haven’t noticed any problems related to the “dirtiness” of the ammo as yet. I think that the DI problems of the AR are somewhat overblown, as I’ve never had my AR stop due to being dirty, even after firing 1000’s of rounds of all kinds of ammo. Even tearing it down after shooting, the insides look like there’s no way the gun could keep functioning, but it does. I do keep it well oiled, though. I think people are overly sensitive about cleaning DI guns, therefore they never test to see what their guns are really capable of, which EVERY AR owner should do, IMHO. I have a friend who’s put over 2000 rounds through his AR with nothing but occasional lubrication.
I tend to think that the best of both worlds would be an AR that can run on any kind of ammo, with considerations. I’ll keep testing, though, and let the results speak for themselves.
Buy a few books and watch some youtube videos, You will need to decide if you want a single stage press or a progressive press before you start. Also, Lee presses are a cheap way to enter the reloading world but if you want quality, do go with a Dillon or Hornady press. Its easy to reload ammo. 223 ammo, you just need to prep the cases first back the spec.
I realize all that. And you should realize that there are more than one manufacturer that will tell you its warranties are void if you use remanufactured or reloaded ammo (Glock for one)...
That aside, let me know when you have some good ole’ 30’06 ball black tip loaded, in quantity.
Probably, the LRHO didn’t work because the last round didn’t have enough power to push the bolt all the way back. Herters (Tula) is notoriously underpowered. Some even suggest running a different buffer/spring combo when using it exclusively.
I had a few problems that could be attributed to the lower power, but not enough that I feel I had to make any changes to the gun. Not for plinking/practice, anyway. Clearing stoppages is good practice, anyway.
I’m sure the chromed chamber made a difference. It reduces the friction and allows the rounds to slide out, even when the chamber is dirty.
I do the same as you. I buy both steel and brass, but the steel goes with me to the range, and the brass goes in the safe.
I just put piston systems on my ARs and they run like little sewing machines, even cool to the touch in the bolt and carrier region.
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