Posted on 04/06/2012 4:36:39 AM PDT by Renfield
There are two stories that have come to light recently, the first is the awarding of a contract to a munitions manufacturer for 450,000,000 hollow point rounds for the .40 caliber.
The second story which I wrote is how the Department of Homeland Security had already ordered 200,000,000 rounds of .40 caliber, but also ordered 15,000 gun cleaning kits for the .40 caliber weapons, and has put a request out for a virtual shooting gallery for the .40 caliber handguns.
650,000,000 round of ammunition is quite a bit of lead and brass. It will sure to drive the price of copper and brass way up. But Homeland Security is not alone in their requests.
The other departments -- the ones that handle mundane things like meat quality -- believe they need to be armed to the teeth as well. It’s enough to make a non-paranoid person, well, paranoid.
The US Department of Agriculture put in a bid for a wide variety of ammunition. I guess raiding farms and raw milk dairies can be very dangerous work. The required rounds are listed below, and include shotgun slugs.
Frangible rounds – for those who don’t know, are rounds that are designed to break apart when they hit walls or other hard surfaces to prevent ricochets during close-quarters combat.
Added: Sep 28, 2011 5:15 pm
(1) 40 caliber, 180 grain, 120,000 rounds or equivalent,
(2) 9 mm, 124 grain, 50,000 rounds or equivalent,
(3) .38 caliber, 135 grain, 10,000 rounds or equivalent,
(4) .380 caliber, 90 grain, 6,000 rounds or equivalent,
(5) .223 caliber, 64 grain, 87,500 rounds or equivalent,
(6) 12 gauge 00 buck, 15,000 rounds or equivalent,
(7) 40 caliber frangible, 10,000 rounds or equivalent,
(8) 9 caliber frangible, 10,000 rounds or equivalent,
(9) .223 caliber frangible, 10,000 rounds or equivalent,
(10) 12 gauge 1 oz slug, 7,500 rounds or equivalent
The cartridges shall be delivered to Albuquerque, NM.
And the Department of the Interior needs ammunition as well, but much less, and put the order out on September 2011:
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services require the following items, Exact Match Only, to the following:
1. Remington Frangible .40 Caliber Pistol Ammunition – 2,500 rounds
2. Remington .40 Caliber Pistol Ammunition (180 grain) Full Metal Jacket – 6,000 rounds
3. Remington .223 Caliber Rifle Ammunition (62 grain) Full Metal Jacket – 3,000 rounds
4. Remington FX Marking Cartridges (9 mm) – 2,000 rounds
These requirements seem normal considering the possibility of running into grizzly bears and wolverines. These, to me, are acceptable quantities to order.
And of course the FBI needs about 100,000,000 rounds of .40 caliber ammunition for law enforcement needs. It posted the request November 15, 2011 and the order will be awarded this week. Oddly, it states a fixed-price, indefinite-delivery, indefinite-quantity type contract; however the pricing requirements go up to 100,000,000 rounds.
So with that large order, we now can move the total “excess” number of .40 caliber rounds that is needed by this administration to 750,000,000 rounds.
Because we live in a free society they feel they must be armed against Amish folk who want to sell people raw milk, like most humans on this planet drink. Maybe the USDA needs the ammunition to fight the evil cadre of “Lemonade Stands” that will soon be terrorizing people walking down sidewalks in Suburbia America.
How can a government justify 2.2 rounds per American citizen? Granted, ammunition does have a great shelf life, but this is utterly ridiculous!
The best way to avoid a civil war is not to start one. If “they” are planning to start one, then it would make sense to arm yourself and take away the guns of the citizenry. If this is just for “work”, ie, to stop bad guys, then the numbers just don’t make sense.
As Sherlock Holmes would say, “When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth”. We are running out of the impossibles and the improbables.
The leftovers are unconscionable and frightening. The game is afoot my friends. Evil in the guise of a benevolent government is still evil.
Will the characters be unmasked in time for our free country to remain free, or will we be another stiff on the slab of history.
The DHS and USDA thugs can carry as much ammo as they wish; doesn’t do much good when you’re getting picked off from ambush.
Anyone with less than 10,000 rnds of each ammo-type they have need of has their head up their rectal passage...or in the sand...If you are lucky (or skilled) enough to survive the initial chaos, the long haul remains.
Well lets see...1000 rounds of 9mm weigh around 30lbs depending on loose or boxed. so 10K would be 300 lbs. Good luck being mobile with 300 lbs of 9mm for your hand gun and 1000 rounds of 308 weighs around 52 lbs...so 10K rounds of that is another 520 lbs...if you go 223 you can roughly halve that down to around 250 or so. Just through all that in your bug out bag sling over your shoulder and hustle to safety :)
I always chuckle when I hear of 1000s of rounds per person or per weapon being stored in someones basement or safe for the stuff hitting the fan day. Sure buy in bulk for target and fun, but don’t think you want to figure out how to move around a storage of a 1000 lbs or more of ammo. Real inconvenient and makes you a big target for the guys that don’t have any!
My generic recommendation is a few hundred (200-500) .22 shells, 100 or so hand gun and 100 or so rifle. Plenty to survive with, still be mostly mobile and deter the average bad guy scenario. Any plans to send a few thousand rounds down range defending your home, is probably misguided unless you happen to have a mini-gun or something :)
hmmm...that is a lot of 40 cal. I may have to consider that as a secondary option to 9mm as a good ‘stuff hitting the fan’ scenario. 9mm like 308 and 223 has been my plan as finding more of it on the ‘battlefield’ would be an option since most NATO/UN/and Armed Forces all carry 9’s so trading for it or acquiring it through some manner after I expended my initial cache would be a seemingly viable option.
Not a bad idea but do you have a link?
“The DHS and USDA thugs can carry as much ammo as they wish; doesn’t do much good when you’re getting picked off from ambush”
Yes. Perhaps everyone should start carrying .40 cal. As the Israelis say “Good gun, only dropped in the sand one time.”
I don’t feel threatened by any of the pistol ammo. The .223 ammo could reach out and touch you. Assuming a muzzle velocity of 3165 fps a 62 grain .223 bullet will fly a maximum distance of 1100 yards. What I got waiting for them is also a .30 caliber. Assuming a muzzle velocity of 2900+ fps a 165 grain .30-06 bullet will fly a maximum distance of 5400 yards. As millions of us would say to the gutless wonder ,”Bring it!”
I don’t feel threatened by any of the pistol ammo. The .223 ammo could reach out and touch you. Assuming a muzzle velocity of 3165 fps a 62 grain .223 bullet will fly a maximum distance of 1100 yards. What I got waiting for them is also a .30 caliber. Assuming a muzzle velocity of 2900+ fps a 165 grain .30-06 bullet will fly a maximum distance of 5400 yards. As millions of us would say to the gutless wonder ,”Bring it!”
My kid had problems with his saiga 12 ga not extracting shells and jamming.
He researched it and found a fix by opening the exhasut gas ports.
Always a fix of some kind. Always more problems out there
If you can’t figure it out, let me know and I’ll ask him the particulars and give them to you.
Pretty heavy getting a thousand or two 7.62 delivered to your door being drug up by some poor guy wondering what the hell you’re getting from Russia!
Listen OldFart, bearsgirl90 also is interested so I’ll ask my kid and get back to you.
He has a date tomight and won’t be home til late but I’ll get it and get back to you tomorrow on it with details.
Honest it is crazy and there is a bucket load of ammo available from the ruskies for lots less in different guage.
First got involved here when ammo became sooo very hard to get right around the last presidential.
If you’re stocking 10,000 rounds of each type, unless you’re spreading it out over several weapons of that caliber, you need to have spare barrels and the means to replace them.
I was going to say that. You’d have to be in desperate last chance circumstances (or a fool) to shoot a griz with any of those. And the chances of even seeing a wolverine are about as good as meeting a Squatch in downtown Seattle for a cafe latte.
You guys just don't understand modern urban warfare.
Jack Sparrow and 40,000 HeadmenSo I turned around and 40,000 headmen hit the dirt.
Firing 20 shotguns each and man it really hurt.
But luckily for me they had to stop and then reload.
And by the time they'd done that I was heading down the road.
;^)
IIRC, Big Brown doesn’t deliver spam cans, but Fed-Ex does. I prefer Fed-Ex anyway since they’re not union. I may be wrong.
Don’t forget SKS. They’re usually a lot less costly than AK’s and are almost as reliable.
LOL...So many assumptions based on a statement I made that revealed none of my tactics, environment, and how or when money has been spent...
Needless to say, my original statement clearly talks about the need for plenty of ammo IF one survives the initial chaos. If you wish to discuss my short-, and long-term strategies (which have been in place and tested since 1998), post a private reply.
Deep behind the enemy lines I await hearing, respectfully, more of your expertise. There's no such thing as too much knowledge, so I am open to anything that may have been overlooked
Agree. Covered this in late 90’s when everything was dirt cheap.
I could probably find a tighter extractor but can’t be too tight or I’ll have a problem in engaging a brass case
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