The Catholic (Santorum or Gingrich) vs. the Mormon (vanity)

Me

[MacMattico]

Would we have thought that possible a while ago?

As a Catholic, I'm quite proud!

I don't hate Mormons, but how can any reasonable individual believe what Mormons believe?

I am very happy for Rick Santorum today, and glad Newt is going after Romney. I know Romney's religion hasn't come up, but it will in any general election. Really, he has freedom to believe what he wants but it should be vetted if that's what will kill his candidacy in the general.

[Cronos]

Oh, I think Perry will unfortunately lose the candidacy. If he wins I still believe he’d be slaughtered in any debates with the teleprompter kid... and unfortunately that is what would sway independents to vote against him.

[napscoordinator]

Oh, I think Perry will unfortunately lose the candidacy.

Oh I think he lost it already. I believe he will drop out today after Bachmann at 1100. Perry did horrible. He should drop out and endorse Santorum. I hope Bachmann endorses Santorum too. I am interested in Cain’s endorsement too (whenever that occurs). Everyone should be getting behind Santorum now. It is clear conservatives want Santorum!!!!

[ansel12]

“But if he was a real conservative and a Mormon, “

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I think that ‘Bishop’ Romney is an exceptional Mormon, a devout Mormon, a powerful leader within the church, and a member of the 15% of Mormons so pure and devout that they are part of a group of secret leadership over the other, less Mormon, Mormons.

The Romneys migrated here in the 1840s to serve Joseph Smith after having been converted in England.

[CAluvdubya]

I have been saying for awhile that if Romney gets the nod, look for the Obama camp to haul out several women claiming to be Romney "sister wives". It won't be true but that little fact won't matter one wit. The damage will be done.

No matter who our candidate will be, they will be smeared with lies and go limping into the general.

Our only hope will be how mad the U.S. population really is about what Obama has done to our country.

[ansel12]

“reaganaut, Ask yourself who Ronald Reagan would vote for.”

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We have no reason to think that when faced with this decision facing us, that Reagan would vote to put a high profile Mormon Bishop into the White House, as head of what is considered the party of the Christian right, as the Mormon religion invests millions in a public relations campaign to exploit this realization of a long term goal to legitimize their cult.

There is no way to get Christians to vote for Romney, without first destroying their will to resist the evil of Mormonism, and accepting it’s own (current and dishonest) descriptions of itself.

[panaxanax]

“We have no reason to think that when faced with this decision facing us, that Reagan would vote to put a high profile Mormon Bishop into the White House..”

Given the above factual information that I offered to you, I would think that Mr. Reagan would vote for Romney over the Muslim America-hating Marxist 0bama.

Do you now speak for reaganaut?

[Scoutmaster]

If an otherwise seemingly intelligent individual with conservative and inspirational ideas to save our country also truly believed in The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or was a believing member of the whites-only Creativity Movement (World Church of the Creator), or practiced magic as an earnest follower of Thee Temple ov Psychick Youth, or was a follower and a professor in The Grey School of Wizardry of the Robert-A.-Heinlein’s-science-fiction-worshipping Church of All Worlds, or simply held a billion-year contract as a believing SeaOrg member of the Church of Scientology? I’d probably take that into account and not vote for him or her. Does that make me a religious bigot?

My guess is that people will say “that’s ridiculous; I’m talking about whether it’s appropriate not to vote for a candidate because of a normal religion with normal religious views.” But the point is that the whole question is based on a continuum and I hope I’ve established that at one end of the continuum there are personally held spiritual beliefs that a voter is justified in considering and saying “really? You believe that . . . (edging away from the candidate a little) . . . I didn’t know.”

Because once you’ve established that a candidate is extremely gullible, or unquestioningly follows the directions of others, or ignores objective history, in a major part of his or her persona life, I think it’s cognitive dissonance to believe that he or she can throw up a Chinese Wall to keep that gullibility, follower-mentality, I-can’t-handle-the-truth mentality from creeping into decisions that are infinitely less personal than his or her eternal soul.

Once you know the makings of a person’s eternal plan, you know a lot. You’ve established something in a version of the punch line attributed to Churchill: "Madam, we've already established that. Now we are haggling about the price”

And when I talk about vetting a candidate based on his or her religious beliefs, I don’t mean somebody who simply carries around a membership card in the The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster as a joke. I mean somebody who is a Temple Worthy Pastafarian. Who believes in it seriously enough that he has served a mission to convert other people to feel the Blessings of his Noodly Appendages. Somebody who served for years in leadership positions in the religion, teaching until 1978 that it was God’s decision that blacks could not be exalted and enter the Celestial Kingdom because they were fence-sitters in the pre-existence, sort of like the Creativity Movement (World Church of the Creator). And saying today that it wasn’t a mistake for which an apology is owed, because it was God’s idea.

Someone devoted enough to The Grey School of Wizardry to have received a Second Annointing, guaranteeing him a direct ticket to godhood over his own planet which he will populate by having actual physical celestial sex with his polygamous goddesses (fitting in with the Robert A. Heinlein science fiction). Someone who believes intensely enough that he takes the steps not just to be a member, but to swear the oath first to the church and its earthly leader (not even to God), sort of like a billion-year SeaOrg contract.

All of which Mitt has done.

A Mormon is a person, an individual, who should be judged as a good or bad person as an individual. There are great ones, good ones, mediocre ones, and very, very bad ones.

Mormonism is a broad set of religious beliefs. Generally, they are premised on the idea that all Christianity ceased to exist on earth shortly after the death of Christ, and was only restored to earth by a prophet, Joseph Smith, in 1830, based another gospel translated from gold plates that restored the “One True Church” and the only priesthood not teaching for Satan.

Mitt's not just a Mormon, where we can just him as an individual. Mitt is Mormonism, the gleeful hand-clapping Salt Lake City fulfillment of the "we've been touting it at every General Conference" White Horse Prophecy. He's Mormon royalty and he kneels to take the crown. Were he Jewish, he wouldn't even need to buy his tickets for the High Holy Days. Baptist? They would empty the baptismal pool, bleach it, and refill it with tepid water from the River Jordan each time one of his family member or friend was to be baptized (and play Free Bird during the service if requested). Lutheran? He'd get extra marshmallows in his pot-luck Jello-o gelatin dessert. Every single time. And he would never get stuck with the lime. Hindu? They would let him select the cows to outfit his Bain softball team with Rawlings gloves. He's not the Mormon you work with.

What does Mitt Romney believe? Many things that would make most people edge away and leave him with the Flying Spaghetti Monster candidates, because he's taken the extra steps to be a leader in the religion, to accept the special straight-to-your-own-planet blessings, to convert others to the "God said blacks were punished, not us." However, you’re simply going to be told through the normal sources. As LDS Apostale Boyd K. Packer instructed a gathering of LDS historians when he formalized the doctrine of the LDS Church only publishing “faith-promoting history” (upon threat of excommunication, disenfellowshipment, or loss of Temple Recommend):

“There is a temptation for the writer or the teacher of Church history to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or faith promoting or not.
 Some things that are true are not very useful. “

And some things that Mitt knows we may know later if we wait for the normal sources:

And a lot of things you aren’t ready to know

That, too, was Apostle Boyd K. Packer, in the same speech (which is still on the www.lds.org website). Talking about you and me. Which perhaps is why the website that contains the LDS educational materials used to teach its 'seminary" (ages 14-18) youth and college students about LDS history and the teachings of Jesus Christ is locked behind a password-protected portal. So is the one for the resources of teachers. I don't know of many other churches that hide their teachings quite this way.

[oust the louse]

Game on!
http://www.hannity.com/videos/?uri=channels/400391/1575619

[ansel12]

We have no reason to think that Reagan would choose to advance the anti-Christian religion of Mormonism because he thought they were good employees and he said nice things to them, like he did to most everyone, including libertarians.

You seem to speak now for Reagan’s Christianity (or lack of it) and have him advancing Mormonism by placing a Mormon Bishop as head of America.

[Scoutmaster]

The Romneys migrated here in the 1840s to serve Joseph Smith after having been converted in England.

Then they abandoned the United States and became part of "Deseret," the theocracy that Brigham Young illegally established in the Utah Territory.

In 1884, because of the federal laws against polygamy (and because LDS church leaders were directing members to establish polygamous colonies in Mexico), Miles Park Romney moved from the Utah Territory, where polygamy was illegal, with his five wives to Mexico, where polygamy was also illegal.

Son Gaskil Romney returned to the U.S in 1912 because of the Mexican revolution (Pancho Villa was not a nice guy to hang around with).

So, left England to become U.S. emmigrees to serve Joseph Smith, went to Utah Territory to become part of Deseret theocracy, left Utah Territory to go to Mexico to practice illegal polygamy, and returned because of Pancho Villa.

in 140 years, none of Mitt's direct family line has served in the military (except perhaps the Nauvoo Legion); isn't that true?

[ansel12]

Yes, it seems that no Romney man has ever served our nation in uniform, that is almost 170 years of perfection, yet we have two of them in a row running for President.

That isn’t coincidence, or skipping a generation or two, or three every once in a while, like normal Americans do, that is a perfect record, a deliberate record, a goal.

[svcw]

So max, how would Romney be better than BHO, their political governance is nearly identical?
Romney needs to be knocked out in the primary and a conservative (as close as we can get) should be nominated, not BHO lite.

[svcw]

As a Christian you should care.

[panaxanax]

“So max, how would Romney be better than BHO”

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You must be kidding.

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“Romney needs to be knocked out in the primary and a conservative (as close as we can get) should be nominated...”

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We do agree on that point.

[svcw]

No I am not kidding.
Both support abortion.
Both support gun control.
Both support the homosexual agenda.
Both support government mandated health care.
And that’s to just name a few.......
So max why are they different?

[greyfoxx39]

I would vote for Romney over Obama personally, but you will have Obama surrogates calling LDS a cult from coast to coast

Perhaps you should spend some time at the site linked below.

You will likely see this Law of Consecration brought up time and again by the Obama campaign...an oath taken by Romney numerous times in the mormon temple..."You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.

Law of Consecration

Mormon’s covenant to put the Church before ALL things.

[Godzilla]

Spot on. A person’s religious beliefs tell us a lot about that individual’s world view and what to expect from them. Additionally, how they don’t follow those teachings also tells us a lot. In Romney’s case - all the high falluting ‘boy are we conservative’ commentary from mormon sources go sour quickly in the face of Harry Reid and yes, mitt’s own liberal record in Massachusetts. “Expedient” might be his claim for how he operated in Massachusetts - but compromise is compromise and if he is willing to compromise the core values of his religion - how more easily will he compromise the country as a whole for his own benefit?

[dragonblustar]

but you will have Obama surrogates calling LDS a cult from coast to coast

Because Mormonism is cult. All Obama would have to do is use historical documents of Joseph Smith, other LDS leaders and use it against the LDS. Truth hurts.

I'm always amazed at how some Catholics want to give Mormonism a pass when it's so clearly a cult.

[panaxanax]

Romney is not a Communist
Romney is not a Muslim
Romney has not kissed the ring of Saudi Princes
Romney has not apologized for American Excellence
Romney is not connected to The Weathermen (murderers)
Romney has a Birth Certifcate
Romney is an American
Romney is not bi-sexual (Larry Sinclair)
Romney is not a drug user like 0bama (Larry Sinclair)
Romney is not connected to SEIU and America-haters
Romney is not endorsed by the Communist Party/USA
Romney is not endorsed by the Socialist Party/USA
Romney is not endrsed by the Workers World Party/USA
Romney had executive experience before being elected
Romney college records are available
Romney did not endorse Muslim Brotherhood (Egypt)
Romney did not endorse CAIR
Romney showed up for work and made decisions
Romney actually loves America
Etc............Etc........Etc.....

I always thought that you were one of the more intelligent ones in your group of ‘anti-MormonISM’ Freepers. You are one of the few that actually post your opinions on other subjects. I thank you for that, but we all must think about America First this coming election. We cannot survive 4, maybe 12 more years of Socialism/Marxism/Communism and you damn well know it!

[svcw]

You are correct about the things listed.
However that does not address the way they govern, which is nearly identical.
I will not support the liberal no matter which party.
I loath mormonISM and I loath liberals.
Romney is a liberal, I will not support him.