How Germany's feared Scharnhorst ship was sunk in WWII

BBC ^ | December 25, 2011 | Claire Bowes

[PzLdr]

SCHARNHORST had a much longer career than BISMARCK. She is the only surface ship I know of to sink a full size carrier in combat [H.M.S GLORIOUS, Norway, 8 JUN 40] . She and her sister ship GNIESENAU were in action in 1939 [sank HMAS RAWALPINDI], 1940 [Norway], 1941 [two month cruise in the Atlantic,Guenther Lutjens, Admiral commanding, that sank either 16 or 22 ships], 1942 [Channel Dash in company with GNIESENAU and PRINZ EUGEN], and sunk in 1943.

She was ,in fact, so active that aside from combat repair, neither she or her sister ship ever had time for the upgrade that would have replaced her Achilles heel [her main battery] of 9 X 11” guns in three turrets with 6 X 15” guns. If she had been carrying 15” guns, her duel with DUKE OF YORK would have been a bit more interesting. But she lived up to her ship’s motto, “IMMER VORANS”-”Always forward”.

[PzLdr]

Originally classified as a battlecruiser, then reclassified as a battleship.

[Squawk 8888]

My uncle served escort duty on the Murmansk run with the Royal Canadian Navy. He contracted tubuculosis and died a few years later; my father caught it from him, spent two years in hospital and lost half a lung. He died of complications in August this year.

[Michael Barnes]

Hat tip to you sir.

My thanks.

[PhiloBedo]

I remember the term “pocket battleship” in reference to Germanys fast battleships.

[Reily]

yep!
Heavy cruisers had much less armor then battleships and were smaller. They were supposed to be able to out run anything they couldn't outfight. There general displacement & length that set the categories.
USN heavy cruisers were armed with guns no larger then 8 inch.
Battlecruisers were a ship midway between a battleship and a cruiser, other navies bought into the concept much more then did the USN. For example the Royal Navy had them, of course in some sense “The Battle of Jutland” invalidated the concept.

[Caipirabob]

The Scharnhorst was thought to be a cursed ship, even by the national socialists:

The Curse of the Scharnhorst

[Reily]

Did they ever get launched?
I know the legendary aircraft carriers Lexington, Saratoga & Enterprise were originally intended to be battlecruisers.

[Victor]

Thanks, Reilly...as usual my Freeper friends are a wealth of information and historical knowledge.

8 inch guns are a huge difference from 16 inch guns. Battleships were named after states....were Cruisers named for cities? Presidents?

[decimon]

If a ship can be cursed then I guess it was.

[Charles Martel]

I remember the term “pocket battleship” in reference to Germanys fast battleships.

Yep, that term was used in reference to some Royal Navy ships, too - even HMS Hood.

[Pilsner]

I remember the term “pocket battleship” in reference to Germanys fast battleships.

Yep, that term was used in reference to some Royal Navy ships, too - even HMS Hood.

The Hipper class cruisers displaced about 12,000 tons. The battle cruiser HMS Hood displaced 46,000 tons. The Hipper class cruisers were called pocket battleships because they had 11" guns. They were built to be close enough to the 10,000 tons limit, that the Treaty of Versailles put on German warships, that other nations wouldn't start a war.

[reg45]

The Lexington class aircraft carriers, USS Lexington (CV-2) and USS Saratoga (CV-3) were originally intended to be battlecruisers, but were rebuilt as aircraft carriers. However, the Yorktown class carriers, USS Yorktown (CV-5), USS Enterprise (CV-6), and USS Hornet (CV-8) were designed and built as aircraft carriers.

[Oztrich Boy]

That is utter and complete CRAP invented by Frank Edwards 50 years ago.

• building accident? Didn't happen. no "3 month delay". Scharnhorst actually had the shortest building time from keel laying to launch of any Kreigsmarine battleship.
• Launch mishap during the night?

  WTF are these people watching?

  

  The incident is a misinterpretation of two drag chains breaking during the launch of Scharnhorst's sister ship Gneisnau

• Bombardment of Danzig? When war broke out on Sept 1 Scharnhorst was in Hegoland Bight, the opposite end of the Kiel Canal to Poland. Scharnhorst only entered the Canal after Poland surrendered. Turret explosion was on the ship that actually bombarded Danzig, the old predreadnought Schleswig-Holstein
• Hit by shore batteries at Oslo? During the Norwegian invasion, Scharnhorst was covering the landings at Narvik. If Tye Oslo shore batteries could hit her there, they shoulda bombarded Berlin instead. Ship sunk at Oslo was heaver cruiser Blucher.
• collision in the Elbe? Neither Scharnhorst or Bremen were ever there. Scharnhorst's homeport was Wilhelmshaven, on the Jade. Bremen's was Bremerhaven (surprise) on the Weser, where she docked on 12 December 1939, and remained until bombed at dockside in a RAF raid during March 1941: Eleven months! after the Norway invasion (that was certainly a slow "limping home")

  And on the night of the bombing raid, the British Admiralty is fairly certain that the Scharnhorst was sinking a British convoy near Newfoundland

And the rest of the article is even less reliable

Frank Edwards was a mountebank with a talent for misleading the gullible.

To get the real opinion of the German navy, try googling "Scharnhorst" and "lucky"

[Caipirabob]

Wow, thanks for the info. I had been reading about the Scharnhorst curse since high school with no material to counter it.

[Caipirabob]

Actually, I first remember reading about it in a series of books by an author of ghost stories. His name is Richard Weiner (Dick Weiner?) I tried to find the series later but I’ve had no luck. I have read about the “curse story” in other books and articles, but if it’s all fantasy, I can’t say I’m sad to see it associated with national socialists.

[QBFimi]

>> Bismark was a one shot which never made it back to port. Tirpitz was a fjord queen.

Who was it that made the crack to Herr Hitler that the Germans ought to focus on submarines, “the perfect choice for a second rate navy”?

[PzLdr]

The German classification for the three “pocket battleships” [DEUTSCHLAND, renamed LUETZOW, ADMIRAL SCHEER, and ADMIRAL GRAF SPEE] was “Panzerschiffe” or “armored ship”.

They went about 12,000 tons or so, and were designed for commerce raiding [long range diesels]. All were done before SCHARNHORST was launched. The only thing they had in common with SCHARNHORST was the armament. Both classes used 11” guns, an advantage for the pocket battleships, a disadvantage for the battlecruisers.

[PzLdr]

Danzig was bombarded by the SCHLESWIG-Holstein, one of the dinosaurs Weimar was allowed to keep after Versailles. She was, at the time, used as a training ship.

[PzLdr]

The HIPPER class carried a main battery of 8” guns. The only German warships with an 11” main battery were the three pocket battleships, DEUTSCHLAND [later LUETZOW, ADMIRAL SCHEER, ADMIRAL GRAF SPEE], and SCHARNHORST and GNIESENAU [both of which had been designed for an upgrade to 15” guns.