Posted on 11/28/2011 9:18:01 PM PST by Kevmo
Rossi... visited the State House last week ...
Andrea Rossi made the trip at the invitation of the Senate’s minority leader, Bruce Tarr, a Republican from Gloucester, and met on Tuesday with representatives from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Northeastern University, and the University of Massachusetts.
....
At this point, however, the E-Cat is widely considered to be unproven. Tests have been scarce and secretive, perhaps because Rossi has said that his technology is still unpatented.
Andrea Rossi was invited to Massachusetts by the Senate’s minority leader, Bruce Tarr (left), a Republican from Gloucester. ‘‘If it works, I want this technology to be developed and manufactured in Massachusetts,’’ Tarr said of cold fusion.
... Last month, he conducted a test of a small cold fusion power plant in Bologna, Italy, for an unnamed customer, who he said was impressed enough to purchase the unit.
Rossi said he has received orders from 12 more customers.
Tarr, who is active in alternative energy legislation, said he invited Rossi to put the state in line for hosting any prospective development of cold fusion.
“Knowing the reputation of cold fusion, I went in with a very healthy level of skepticism,’’ he said.
....
Tamarin said the meeting was mostly used to discuss the possibility of setting up manufacturing, rather than the validity of the science.
“Rossi said he was not ready for a full academic investigation of his technology because he doesn’t yet have full patent protection,’’ Tamarin said. “That’s consistent with it not working, but it’s also consistent with it working very well.’’
(Excerpt) Read more at bostonglobe.com ...
Kevmo, just a few threads back you said it was fully patented .....
***Um, no I did not.
So, once again I predict you’ll go round & round on this without producing the original thread you claim exists, because it does not exist. This is a pattern forming here in this bowlsheet behavior.
“Rossi now has patent protection in Italy, but still no international patent.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2802391/posts
I am sure I can find other examples....
https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=site:freerepublic.com+%2Bkevmo+%2Bpatent&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest
dilataunt:
Kevmo, just a few threads back you said it was fully patented
Kevmo: No I didn’t.
Dilataunt:
“Rossi now has patent protection in Italy, but still no international patent.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2802391/posts
***There you go again. Rossi has a patent in Italy. That is not “full patent protection”. He cannot get a patent here in the USA, for now. That’s a far cry from “full patent protection”. You don’t ever seem to get anything right.
1. You won’t have hot fusion jet packs and cars for many of the same reasons you don’t have fission powered jet packs and cars.
***And yet, that doesn’t stop naysayers & seagulls from leading off with “wake me up when I can buy a LENR car” or some bilgewater comment like that.
2. The only proof of a customer is Rossi’s word—and we already know how reliable that is.
***Then it makes it all the more easier to prove it’s a fraud. Eventually either he gets caught or it’s real. No middle ground any more with you folks claiming these are shills.
Publishing in a peer-reviewed paper would protect the intellectual property.
***You seem to come from a completely different planet than the one that real businesses operate on. I hope it’s cozy there. One of the threads I recently posted was quoting the president of Defkalion proudly claiming to have stolen Rossi’s formula.
Kevmo, you and I were arguing at the time that Rossi couldn’t get his stuff patented, back and forth ... you were arguing that he had a patent protecting his invention and I was arguing he didn’t.
Now you have switched position again. How convenient......
There you go again. Your statement is not backed up by facts, simple facts. Twisting yourself into a pretzel to cover another lie.
***And yet, that doesn’t stop naysayers & seagulls from leading off with “wake me up when I can buy a LENR car” or some bilgewater comment like that.
I have never made any comment like that. I'll be satisfied with any evidence that shows Rossi isn't running a scam--proof that he really has cold fusion running. I've even described the scientific evidence that is needed and sufficient to support such a claim.
2. The only proof of a customer is Rossi’s word—and we already know how reliable that is.
***Then it makes it all the more easier to prove it’s a fraud. Eventually either he gets caught or it’s real. No middle ground any more with you folks claiming these are shills.
I think the scam is about to be blown wide open. Rossi's upping the ante, as it were, with talk of a customer of which there is no concrete evidence, indicates that the scam may almost be exposed. Another hint of the scam's entering its end days is on the site that supposedly is taking orders. You can see on the site (I think it is ecat.com) that a 1 MW generator is available, and a 5 MW will soon be available--but home generators are still being developed. In other words, the generators most likely to sell in large volume aren't being offered yet... I wonder why (that's a rhetorical question).
Publishing in a peer-reviewed paper would protect the intellectual property.
***You seem to come from a completely different planet than the one that real businesses operate on. I hope it’s cozy there. One of the threads I recently posted was quoting the president of Defkalion proudly claiming to have stolen Rossi’s formula.
No, I come from the world of real scientists. Where publishing in a peer-review journal confers legal property rights to the process being described, including if it has commercial application. Where legal battles lasting over a decade have been fought based on the content of peer-review literature--not patents--over the issue of intellectual property. I won't, at this time, go into the details of one such case that I heard about first hand from one of the defendents, but I will say that the lawsuit was not decided based on patents, but based on original publication. That is also how Nobel Prize recipients are determined. Patents, in my world of scientists, come AFTER peer-reviewed publication.
I actually agree with you on the Constitutionality aspect, but history has proven repeatedly that the current approach to funding of research is NECESSARY for national survival, both military and economic. A "pure market" approach simply doesn't work as well.
And most of the abuses are the result of "avoiding competition" (crony capitalism or a monopoly on control of funding).
As I said before...either believe me or don't....I don't lie.
"I examined the first 20 articles that arose because I use scroogle and they return the first 20 results. None of the articles I saw never discussed how much power (in kw) the gensets were outputting."
And what you're seeing is what I call the "echo-chamber effect". Once the "naysayer machine" gets cranked up, they post the same stuff over and over and over and over, and quote one another on multiple fora. This delivers a gigantic number of hits, and, since Google delivers by "number of hits", the non-naysayer information gets lost in the deluge. In this case, the "meme" being sold is "the 1MW test is a failure because it only delivered 450+KW", and of course, those "hits" don't mention the "minor" detail about operation in "power modulated mode" precisely at 1MW, and precisely within Rossi's stated COP spec.
It's there, but you have to dig for it.
You can see the same exact effect on these FR threads, where a small cadre posts the same stuff on every CR thread, and multiple times within a single thread.
The only type of "con" Rossi was actually convicted of was financial....not scientific.
"You would be an idiot NOT to consider such evidence when he is once again making a large scientific claim."
See above about "scientific".
"I would ask you where is your evidence that Rossi has changed? Point to the evidence. Don’t point to the machine. Don’t point to him paying any penalty, he just got caught. That’s not evidence of change. Point to some concrete evidence he has done that shows he ought to be trusted and a higher degree of skepticism is totally unwarranted. Show me your hard evidence Rossi would never pull another massive scam"
The idea that Rossi could generate a "con" of this complexity is ludicrous. There are simply too many factors that he would have to control to "make it happen". There is also simply too much internal evidence from the various demos that it isn't a con. And I'm seen just enough "counter information" to Rossi's malfeasances to make me largely discount those. Of course, the naysayers never mention those little factors, as it doesn't fit the story they want sold.
I "have" considered the evidence....ALL the evidence....and I arrive at a different conclusion from the "seagull crowd".
Twisting yourself into a pretzel to cover for a con man.
How much you getting paid Kevmo or are you just that enamored with the guy that you can conceive the truth?
You know, the new drugs for depression and manic depression are much better. You should try them because either the current ones are no longer working or you’ve stopped taking them in the incredibly erroneous belief that you’re OK.
You’re not!
Need to correct one adjective here. I did NOT say "commonly reported". I said "reported".
Thinking back on it, I believe the comment I am remembering may have actually been a comment made by Rossi in an interview, the gist of which was that he was complaining that all the reportage was focussing on the 450KW "self-sustain" mode and NOT reporting the 1MW "power modulated" mode, and that he had precisely fulfilled the "COP of 6" that he specified in the mode he had specified. IOW, he had delivered exactly what was promised.
That can be a real problem for a drug or medical process that takes a number of years to test for approval ~ you might end up with an exclusive marketing period of just a few years.
It's enough of a problem for those scientists they they've repeatedly asked Congress for relief on duration of patents.
Actually, as a research scientist who has never been associated with a pharmaceutical company, if I want samples of an experimental drug for research, I can sign something called a "Material Transfer Agreement," in which I promise not to use the drug for any commercial purpose, and communicate to the company any results of my research. Plus, when I publish those results, I must say where I got the drug samples.
This is pretty standard practice within the scientific world. As I said before, there is no real risk to Rossi--if what he has is genuine, then all he has to do is have the independent investigators sign non-disclosure agreements, MTAs, or whatever legal documents, and his property is protected. The excuse that the eCat isn't under patent protection doesn't hold water to someone aware of how the scientific world operates.
That's just BS and you know it.
That's just BS and you know it.
No, I am talking about the real world where there are multiple legal protections put into place to protect scientists' intellectual property. Those Material Transfer Agreements and Non-Disclosure Agreements aren't just handshakes; they are legal documents that carry weight in courts, even across international borders.
Rossi's hooey about not allowing independent tests because he doesn't have patent protection is just that: hooey.
You don't need patent protection on intellectual property; there are other ways to protect it.
I’m a LENR fan, not a Rossi fan.
How much are you getting paid to be so pedestrian? Also, maybe you should re-read what you wrote, and then take a writing class.
As a LENR Fan, you should know that Rossi is the greatest threat of LENR there is.
Nothing wrong with LENR itself.
So as a LENR Fan, why does nearly every story on LENR you post contain Rossi?
Patents, in my world
***Exactly. You come from a different world. This is the business world, not the realm of scientists.
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