Posted on 09/10/2011 6:51:05 AM PDT by erkyl
Ron Clark is an award-winning teacher who started his own academy in Atlanta He wants parents to trust teachers and their advice about their students Clark says some teachers hand out A grades so parents won't bother them It's OK for kids to get in trouble sometimes; it teaches life lessons, Clark says
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
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Thanks for the clarification. I was active with FCPS at the time the program was implemented (as I recall in the late 90’s, they were trying to push older teachers out the door).
One of the teachers at my daughter’s school was eligible to retire under then newly implemented plan at the end of said daughter’s junior year, but stayed on thru their graduation since she was a class sponsor. Everyone thought it was incredible that she’d stay and work that year for basically nothing.
My kids had FCPS teachers who were worth a million dollars a year; others shouldn’t have been allowed in the classroom. And a few in between.
“Nice. Great to engage in mature exchange of views and civil discourse with an adult.”
You’re the one telling ME I don’t spend enough on my kids simply because I don’t want to spend more on schools. Like a liberal, you think spend = results. If it did in education, more would support spending.
“$5000 in prop. taxes means little unless you also provide the value you are paying taxes on.”
My house is assessed at $250K, dropping to 220K next year. I have two vacant lots that I couldn’t sell for $10K in the current market. Yep, I’m just a rich guy rolling in dough. And yes, we also have an income tax, and a sales tax here. But my property taxes HAVE dropped to $4500 this year...
“In most areas, teachers who have any decent standard of living are not the primary income for their family.”
Same could be said of mechanics. Around here, few mechanics make 45K/year - the ave teacher’s salary in AZ. For a mechanic, try about 25% less for 12 months of labor.
“If it’s so lucrative and so easy — why aren’t you doing it?”
The same as many others - no discipline in the classroom. So I went from student teaching in 1980 to the military, and retired recently. I considered teaching again, but my sister & brother-in-law recommended against it. They are teachers in their late 50s, and would leave tomorrow if they could afford to do so. They love teaching, but hate the rules, the administration, the paperwork, mandatory lesson plans, and refusal to support discipline.
But they would gladly work for their current pay, if they were allowed to focus on teaching. And I would be glad to teach, IF I could do so in a place where cussing at the teacher isn’t acceptable to the administration.
If you want to make more money than what a teacher makes, change jobs. You’ll find year-round work a new experience, and you’ll also find yourself accountable for results.
This article’s ridiculous idea that parents are the problem is stupid. Yes, parents complain. And my wife is an RN, and her patients and their families bitch all the time. When my daughter was in 4th grade, the school recommended drugs and counseling for her. Why? Because one day on the playground, she licked her fingers and chased the boys. The modern, top rated school I was paying for considered that sexual harassment of the other kids. I said (and her teacher, to her credit, agreed) it was a young girl acting like a young girl.
They had her flunking language arts in the 4th grade - a girl who read The Lord of the Rings in the 1st grade, including appendices. Why? Because instead of writing sentences, she insisted on writing stories or poems.
They had a reading competition in the 4th grade, including testing for comprehension. My daughter out-read the rest of the 4th grade - the ENTIRE 4TH GRADE - by herself...but she was flunking language arts.
That is a teacher/administration problem.
And I pulled her from the school. This year, we are TRYING her in the 9th grade. The school is supposed to be one of the best in the state - hence the very high property tax. It seems...OK. No better than OK. And in November, the school district is going to try to pass an override allowing them to raise our taxes, because the falling property values aren’t providing them with the cash they have become used to spending. And no, I look at my $4500 bill this year and see no reason to spend more.
If any group of parents would be willing to listen to an administrator and teachers, one would think it would be the administrator and teachers they were paying big money to teach their child.
The system is broken. It breaks good teachers and turns them into bureaucrats.
To say parents are 100 % of the problem is baloney. Sure there are bad parents, just as there are failed schools, teachers, principals and material.
The union is a big part of the problem, so is federalism. Funny how teachers and their union support federalism when it gives them money but recoil in horror when it adds some accountability.
The system is broken. It breaks good teachers and turns them into bureaucrats.
To say parents are 100 % of the problem is baloney. Sure there are bad parents, just as there are failed schools, teachers, principals and material.
The union is a big part of the problem, so is federalism. Funny how teachers and their union support federalism when it gives them money but recoil in horror when it adds some accountability.
“Don’t know where you live, but there aren’t any wealthy teachers running around here, except the ones who left a good career to teach. “
I thought teachers weren’t in it for the money but for the chilllll-drunnn.
Teachers should be paid what it takes to fill the positions, not some mystical amount determined by the govt.
Mechanics get paid more because most people don’t want to be mechanics and are willing to pay to have someone else do the dirty work.
You have to earn respect. I don’t listen to someone just because they think I should.
They need to prove they are worth my attention let alone trust.
Since these parents chose this school for their children, and pay for it, one would think they did respect their teachers, else why would they keep paying for their kids to attend?
There are teachers I know who, if they weren't already financially comfortable, wouldn't be teaching. So no -- they're not in it for the money.
And they have been recruited by private schools -- but stay with public education out of seeing a need.
I'm with you -- pay teachers what it takes to fill the positions -- with talent, not someone who just keeps the seat warm and hands out worksheets.
Your comment is like saying, "Just pay mechanics enough to find someone who knows which end of the wrench to pick up."
You will pay for what you value, and value what you pay for.
I don't equate money=results. I equate paying a fair price for fair value. If people want to farm their kids to the lowest cost worker, then they deserve what they get. If they want to demand quality, then expect to pay a fair price.
Parents aren't the total problem. Neither are teachers. Neither are the kids. But being prior military, I'm sure you're familiar with the 80/20 rule.
Sorry you failed as a teacher -- I think you could have been a good one if you had stuck it out.
“You’re the one who said teachers were making a ton.”
No I didn’t. I will say some are making much more than they are worth. Some are making less. If they want more money let them get a different job.
How much should we pay someone teaching 2+2?
Really how much is that worth, is it a hard skill to find?
Who knows, but just because I heard the school is good doesn’t mean I’ll give them a free pass to do anything they want.
Why do teachers even want that? Seems a little creepy to me. Like they don’t trust the parents and are trying to prevent the students from learning from their parents.
I agree 100%.....and the liberals and foreigners aren't done yet....this will continue until American History is obsolete.
FWIW though, the worst teachers I ever had were the ones in a private Christian school. I had a male teacher in 5th grade that used to spank me, across his legs, with his bare hand, on my bare bottom. I would say it was an isolated case except it happened again in 9th, in another Christian school, in another state. My parents pulled me from the schools both times -- who knows, maybe it was my fault some how
So you have an issue with Christians because of this one jerk?
Just because I pay someone “thousands” doesn’t mean I’ll turn my kids over to them lock stock and barrel. One of the reasons is they might end up getting the treatment you received, and I’d like to prevent that.
And no, I didn't lose my faith over it. I'm a Christian, but it did teach me to not trust someone JUST because they say they are a Christian. Because it is pretty obvious that these two men were not truly in the Light of Christ.
But you might have missed my point...this whole thread has been about public school teachers, instead of discussing the point of the article, which is people paid for the advice/education from this person's school --- and then rejected it as not as worthwhile as their child's word in a matter...that's pretty odd. At that point, why not save your money and just use the local public school?
I didn’t “fail” as a teacher. I tried it and didn’t like it.
I decided there were better things to do with my life, and spent most of my life in fighter squadrons. You might be surprised at how many public school teachers would find flying fighters more exciting and fulfilling than teaching. Pays better too!
Of course, I got shot at more often than the average public school teacher, but that added to the excitement.
“If they want to demand quality, then expect to pay a fair price.”
Sorry. There is no way to funnel money in public schools to good teachers. ALL teachers get paid roughly the same. Good ones and awful ones - same pay.
If all schools were private, then the free market would allow parents to make choices about their kids education. But the government monopoly prevents that.
The nearest private school to me is 30 miles away with a waiting list. And if I drive my kid there & back, covering 120 miles/day, I STILL pay the government schools nearly $5000/year. In fact, the tuition there is less than what I pay in property taxes...but paying both would be a challenge.
The problem isn’t parents, teachers or kids. It is government, forced monopoly and unions.
Privatize all schools. You won’t find salaries going up, but you will find most teachers will be happier.
Getting paid $45,000/year for 9 months of teaching is NOT a bad salary.
Stop being jealous of mechanics. Become one, if you are able. But you might find it more work, and less pay:
“Median hourly wages of automotive service technicians and mechanics, including commission, were $16.88 in May 2008.” - BLS - that would be $33K+ for 2000 hours of work, and I’d bet the figure has gone DOWN since 2008!
“Median annual wages of kindergarten, elementary, middle, and secondary school teachers ranged from $47,100 to $51,180 in May 2008; the lowest 10 percent earned $30,970 to $34,280; the top 10 percent earned $75,190 to $80,970.
According to the American Federation of Teachers, beginning teachers with a bachelor’s degree earned an average of $33,227 in the 2005-2006 school year.” - BLS
Please note that your wealthy car mechanic makes, on average, what the bottom 10% of teachers make. The average teacher in the USA makes $49,000 for 9 months work. That works out to over $32/hr. My wife is an RN making $27/hr. Tell me again how underpaid teachers are...
My apologies for injecting numbers into a discussion about teachers. Very few teachers understand them.
“Mechanics get paid more because most people don’t want to be mechanics and are willing to pay to have someone else do the dirty work.”
Mechanics who make more work lots of overtime. The national average for all car mechanics is <$17/hour, or <34K a year. The national average for all teachers of public schools is $49K/year for 9 months, or about $32/hr.
Poooooor teachers! Only $32/hour!
damn....wish I made $32 an hour. Been teaching for 15 years, not there yet, not even really that close. Especially considering I’m on my 6th year in a row with a frozen salary.
Good thing I didn’t go into this for the money because then the joke would be on me
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