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To: rxsid
I'm not sure why you would include Story's comment there, to say that the "natural born Citizen" issue was not "black and white." I'm going to assume you are not alleging that Story was equating "natural born Citizens" with naturalized citizens (which he goes on to decribe).

I referenced Story's comment because it is the only comment the editors of the five volume Founders' Constitution chose to illuminate the origin and/or meaning of Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5. (except for some unedifying, to me anyway, brief quotes from the "Records of the Federal Convention.") The Founders' Constitution was published in 1987 and so cannot be said to have been edited to favor Obama. It is a University of Chicago publication now reprinted by the Liberty Fund. I suppose you think you know more than these people do about this topic, but you probably do not.

As for naturalized citizens, you might think about how closely related the words naturalized and natural born are. In England and in the colonies those who were naturalized were "entitled to have and enjoy all the Rights, Liberties, Privileges, and Advantages which his Majesty's Natural born Subjects in this Colony have and enjoy, or ought to have and enjoy, as fully to all Intents and purposes whatsoever, as if all and every one of them had been born within the Colony." (Laws of the Colony of New York, Chapter 1462, passed January 27, 1770) To assert with absolute certainty that 17 years later that these same people had changed their minds about what the words naturalized and natural-born meant to them then without some other substantial evidence is willful ignorance.

Or maybe it is an effort to divert the attention of others from the massive and various frauds committed by Barack Hussein Obama.

ML/NJ

223 posted on 08/11/2011 9:17:38 AM PDT by ml/nj
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To: ml/nj
You stated:

It proves that the natural-born thing is not quite so black and white as some here would like to believe. Joseph Story too somehow leaves out parentage when discussing this:

§ 1473. It is indispensable, too, that the president should be a natural born citizen of the United States; or a citizen at the adoption of the constitution, and for fourteen years before his election. This permission of a naturalized citizen to become president is an exception from the great fundamental policy of all governments, to exclude foreign influence from their executive councils and duties. It was doubtless introduced (for it has now become by lapse of time merely nominal, and will soon become wholly extinct) out of respect to those distinguished revolutionary patriots, who were born in a foreign land, and yet had entitled themselves to high honours in their adopted country. A positive exclusion of them from the office would have been unjust to their merits, and painful to their sensibilities. But the general propriety of the exclusion of foreigners, in common cases, will scarcely be doubted by any sound statesman. It cuts off all chances for ambitious foreigners, who might otherwise be intriguing for the office; and interposes a barrier against those corrupt interferences of foreign governments in executive elections, which have inflicted the most serious evils upon the elective monarchies of Europe. Germany, Poland, and even the pontificate of Rome, are sad, but instructive examples of the enduring mischiefs arising from this source. A residence of fourteen years in the United States is also made an indispensable requisite for every candidate; ...

Why, again, would you choose this passage to allege that the "natural born Citizen" definition isn't so "black and white?"

That passage, as I stated before, speaks to the admission of naturalized citizens to the office of POTUS. He's not talking about Arnold Schwarzenegger type naturalized...but rather, the founders and framers as having been "naturalized" via the Declaration of Independence. Obviously, they were not born American citizens and none of them where "natural born Citizens."

So, they inserted the "OR" clause there and grandfathered themselves past the NBC requirement. That's what Story is talking about there.

Clearly, there are TWO parts to Article II, Section 1, Clause 5. The "NBC" part, and the "citizen" part. Story is obviously refering to the "OR", or grandfather part.

It's interesting that you would state this:

As for naturalized citizens, you might think about how closely related the words naturalized and natural born are. In England and in the colonies those who were naturalized were "entitled to have and enjoy all the Rights, Liberties, Privileges, and Advantages which his Majesty's Natural born Subjects in this Colony have and enjoy, or ought to have and enjoy, as fully to all Intents and purposes whatsoever, as if all and every one of them had been born within the Colony."

If you were to view my posts in the past, or my profile page, you will see that I'm well aware of how English law defined "naturalized" subjects.

In English law, a naturalized subject was for all intents and purposes the same as a "natural born subject."

Obviously, "naturalized citizens" are not for all intents and purposes the same as a "natural born citizens." If they were, like in England of the time, Arny would be eligible.

Naturalization laws can change on the whim of any Congress.
A naturalized citizen take's the law(s) of men (and women) to recognize them. A "natural born Citizen" does not and has it's basis in meaning from the laws of nature.

231 posted on 08/11/2011 4:31:21 PM PDT by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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