Posted on 04/30/2011 7:47:27 PM PDT by Captain Peter Blood
Today I had lunch with my sister and nice to discuss college plans. She will be graduating next month and we haven’t finalized plans on where she is going.
She is a very good student with 3.5 GPA but is not a good standardized test taker, in that she takes after her uncle.
Her first choice for school is the University of Arkansas in our home state. Main problem has been that the university requires a minimum of 19 on the ACT and her best score of the several she has taken has been 18.
So we have been exploring other options on where to go, mainly schools that have a lower Act requirement.
My Sister and niece have been looking at out of state schools, which is fine, but you then have to factor in out of state tuition costs.
So today I get an idea of the costs involved in going to college and sticker shock hit me.
Today’s college costs bear no resemblance to those I experienced when I was an undergrad. Costs have been going up but it’s obvious that the rises in costs outstrip even those of medical or inflation.
I find out today that to go to the University of Arkansas in Fayetteville, carrying a full load, 18 hours, will cost approximately $20,000 a year. To go to ,say the University of Mississippi at Oxford, about $30,000 a year.
As some of you might know the only growth in loan activity, which has exploded, is student loans. Sallie Mae loans are now totally controlled by the Federal Government thanks to bill passed within the last two years and signed by Mr. Obama.
The fact of the matter is that unless you have a college fund started when a child is born or very wealthy parents the cost of going to college are out of reach for the majority of those that want to go.
Ergo the only choice you really have is student loans, which you become saddled with for the rest of your life, unless you pay them off in a timely manner.
The average kid is probably looking at about $100,000 or more of student loans when they leave school. Of course they give wonderful easy payment options as I found out when I checked the Sallie Mae website. Also they make very easy to apply and get those loans.
As far as I am concerned it’s an insidious plot designed to put these kids on the hook. The Federal Government has become the local loan shark of last and only resort.
It’s not possible for a kid to work and put themselves through school in this day and age without having financial help in some aspect.
Because of the easy loans and the mantra being bandied about that everyone should be able to go to college it’s an easy trap to fall into, or rather shoved into.
Still have to sort all this out but I would say that in the end it’s like Las Vegas, the odds are with the house i.i. The Federal Government, we may have to consider those student loans if my niece wants to go and have that opportunity for a college education.
The U of A is one of my alma maters, but there are plenty of good schools in the state, Harding, UCA,Hendrix,Henderson,and U of the Ozarks. I have many fine friends that attented those college and have been successful in life.
Don’t get me wrong, I loved my time in Fayetteville, but there were 1,000 freshman in my class and only 456 of us graduated in four years. I had many friends flunk out, join the service and return to Fayetteville and the other schools I mentioned and graduate.
I don’t believe that the name of the schools is as important as what you study and how hard you work at it.
I am a fan of small schools, there were only 4,000 students total(counting grad students) at Fayetteville, while I was there.
I am not a fan of student loans,
I have put 2 through college (Hillsdale) and another one is about to start at a local private college. My take on your situation is to second not going into any kind of serious debt but also that a lot of private colleges offer scholarships to students that make the tuition about the equivalent of a government run school.
I feel your pain. We are in the same situation with a graduating grandson who has almost $40,000/yr in scholarships. Grandson has worked for two years trying to get senatorial sponsorship. He’s in the 98th percentile in the US. Had a recommendation from Senator Lugar for the Naval Academy to get his M.D. The academy accepted. But the Navy looked at his MEPS physical and found out he’s color blind. And even with his MD, they couldn’t offer him a commission. Senator Lugar’s office even asked for an exception. Navy said no deal.
So we went to a local private school with a Medical program and they said YES, we can take him and his scholarships. Mission accomplished! And when the deal was cut, grandson would only come out of medical school with an $80,000 debt and Dad $60,000 debt. With two more children coming up behind.
We did the same thing with a state medical school, and they’d still come out with tremendous debt.
Senator Lugar, also recommended him for ARMY ROTC just in case. YES! The Army would take him and his scholarships, and pay the difference, except not for an MD...he can go to law school.
He doesn’t really want to be a lawyer, but he’s waiting for his acceptance letter.
So we’re in holding pattern here at the last minute also.
Funding these days for colleges is nothing more than scam. My son was in despair and expressed his frustration. Grandson so calm said, Dad, you and I are not in control here God is. Son said, Mom, he’s already a better man than I am. But we did everything RIGHT! I just can’t believe there are so many scams out there.
Yes, send her to a local Junior College the first two years. Get her grades up as high as she can. Let her work on the side and save some money to help eleviate some of the debt. Plus work on getting some scholarships from ANYBODY that’s offering.
“7) And there are scholarships”
If it is a girl, there are scholarships for that.
If you are black there are scholarships for that.
If you are foreign born, there are scholarships for that.
If you are a Democrat fundraiser, there are scholarships for that.
If you are an illegal alien, there are scholarships for that.
If you are a criminal, there are scholarships for that.
So by telling them your daughter or niece is one or more of these, someone will give you money and chances are they won’t even question you on it.
We went a different route. My daughter is going to community college the first two years and will transfer into a four year school the last two.
Saves us $30,000.
The Author of the website also wrote a book that was quite an eye opener.
Student who owed approximately 30-40K defaulting (usually because of unemployment), with penalities they very quickly owed triple that amount. (A form of Usury).
Students who are hounded at their work 10 times a day by collectors so they very quickly become unemployable.
In some states they can take away professional licenses for defaulting on loans. Again making the student unemployable and unable to pay their debts.
Many documented cases of students fleeing the Country to escape from the debt.
FAFSA don’t get me started. It’s giving complete financial information about your family to the dept of education. If your family has been responsible and both parents have a good job. Forget it you can pay full price.
NO way would I let my kids do this to themselves.
Nothing wrong with LRU (I don’t know its’ new name, we called it Last Resort U), I know many grads from there, who are now bankers, accountants and lawyers in Little Rock. One of my good friends went there while working at Worthern bank and was National Guard, he is now a successful businessman in Little Rock.
There were no student loans, when I went to school, but everybody I knew who wanted a college degree found a way to get it. It might have taken them seven or more years, but they did it.
My brothers’ children were lucky, their parents could afford to pay all bills, but everyone of them, graduated in three years to help hold down the costs.
What I advise any of my high school students, if they are going to college at all, is based on my own experiences of it, and largely financing it myself. I recommend to them to take the 1st two years at a community college- it is cheaper, and your first two years are mostly what are not related to a 4 year major- your general college requirements, which transfer to a 4 year school. In regard to borrowing, I do not recommend it IF the student is going to go into a major where the pay is low to start with, because it takes a decade or so to pay it off. My own experience was this way- I was not a profitable entity until about 8-10 years out of school, because of servicing debt. I tell my students to take advanced classes in high school- it can count as college credit, and that reduces the amount of time and money you spend. Student loans are not in and of themselves evil. But like any other option, it has to be managed and planned. Borrowing $100,000 to get a degree in advanced basket-weaving or modern dance is a cost not commiserate with the benefit. If you must borrow, borrow wisely.
Also, when considering institutions, price should be a consideration. I went to grad school at the same public university that I did my undergrad work at. I was taking classes with people who had gone to some private, prestigious (expensive) colleges and I did not find myself at a disadvantage. Granted, a school’s name opens a lot of doors. But sometimes it is more about learning- and that is up to the student.
It is truly evil what is happening to the younger generation.
Usury is wrong. Making them unemployable is wrong. Making it impossible to to pay it back is wrong. Making it life long debt is wrong. Indentured servitude is wrong.
And doing this is worse than the credit card scams of years ago. They are mostly too young to understand how hard and how long it will take to pay it back and how little they will be payed. They are playing on them at the most vulnerable time in their lives, just before they enter working adulthood.
It is pure unadulterated evil.
1. Have both your nieces parents quit their jobs BEFORE their daughter applies for financial aid.
2. Have her wait a year and find a way to become INDEPENDENT of her parents— maybe they could disown her or kick her out now and after have her declared independent by a court,Make sure she remains unemployed
3. Have your niece marry, for monetary purposes only of course, a homeless unemployed guy
4. Have your niece become an addict, run away from home, go to rehab and declare that she can’t live with her parents rules.
Yes, sarcasm, but also yes real ways I have seen students get full financial aid and pay for just about all of their college costs. And you don’t have to have any special grades for this aid!
But have great, hardworking kids with good grades— cough up a 100 grand or make them borrow it!
College is useless for around 75% of the students. Mostly just a party time, a very expensive party.
Young people now should just learn a skill (electrician, welding, bookkeeper, respiratory therapist, etc.). Usually takes two years at the most, then on to the job.
I recommend community college for the first two years.
In my state, my kids attended virtually for free. I paid a few nominal fees and bought overpriced books, which I turned around and re-sold.
Use a good counselor at the community college to help them get the transferable courses to a good four year college. Make an educational plan and tweak it with the counselor every semester. Have them take honors courses, do a good extra-curricular, and prepare a great personal statement.
After two or two and half years, depending on how many of their required courses they can knock out, which depends on how many they can get into, whether there is summer school, etc. —
transfer to a four year school. They are more likely to get accepted to the school of their choice as a transfer student, anyway. They are a proven entity, with a hopefully high GPA taking tough honors courses. And they will often qualify for better scholarships.
And voila! You pay for just two years of college; save on the housing/food for the first two years at community college; your student is well prepared for college level work; and the degree they get is from the four year college, no problem.
“I think it would be great if my kids could borrow enough, but the misnomered “financial aid” office sent me a letter saying that I should borrow the money myself because we did not qualify for most of the government programs.”
I had to borrow most of the money for the four year college, too, because ‘financial aid’ informed me that if my credit was good they would not loan to money to my son — but my son and I had a private arrangement that he would pay it back, not me.
Of course you want a kid you can trust if you are going to do that! Also be aware that even if you can trust him, something beyond his control can happen (health or whatever), so you should be prepared to pay the loan yourself if necessary.
My son’s loans are paid off :)
You get to pay for the hundreds of professors of sociology and LGBT studies who could never survive in the real world.
Welcome to academia
People always complain about how much docs make, but by the time we actually become debt-free, other people have been in their careers for close to 20 years. They are WAY ahead of me, because they have been accumulating wealth/benefits/seniority all that time. I should have become a plumber. Or a teacher. Or a cop. I could be looking at retiring in a few years, with a juicy pension and lifelong benefits that I will never come close to having. I will have to sock away a ton of money and may never be able to retire. And my "health plan" will be medicare. Not the Cadillac plans union members receive.
Don’t know about the “married to someone” issue but my daughter got her Masters while living with me and borrowed $5,000 to cover a part of her tuition. She was killed in an auto accident. I wrote a letter to the lending agency and her remaining debt was forgiven - of course that was several years ago so rules may have changed.
“I would only suggest loans for law school...”
Take law school off the list, unless it’s one of the top 10 in the country, and then only if the kid can finish in the top 20% of his class. It’s horrible out there now for law school graduates, due to the weak economy and the continual growth in the number of law schools and graduates. This may clear up over time, but now it’s a dead end.
I know, I know, lots of FReepers are crying over this development.
I don’t know what the transfer rules are in your state, but here in Maryland if she went to a community college and got stellar grades she could then transfer to a state University even after one year. My nephew was wait listed for University of Maryland, and transferred after one semester at community college.
Have her parents invested any money in a prep class for the SAT’s or ACT’s? There are also private tutors, and although expensive I have found well worth the investment. These tests have tricks to taking them... particularly since they count against you for guessing. A good tutor (get references) is very well versed in things like “which” vocabulary words regularly show up etc.
Actually UALR has turned into a pretty good school. They now have on campus dorms, a great athletic program, so it’s really a great place. I checked prices last night and it’s about $5000 for a year. Affordable.
Well she pinned all her hopes in going to the U. of A. and she is also very athletic in cheerleding, one of tops around.
But my sister and her husband did not do enough to get her ready or themselves either.
Times passes to quickly and all of a sudden she’s graduating.
No one was thinking what the real cost of going to college might be.
So here we are.
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