Posted on 03/11/2011 7:51:18 PM PST by Daffynition
Rick is the Gandhi of receipt-check deniers. He writes in with a story of how he bought a 37 inch TV from Walmart and was able to successfully say no to the receipt checker blocking his way with his body. Rick did this by calmly and reasonably explaining his position to the assistant manager who showed up and by ignoring everyone around him who was trying to provoke him. Sometimes the quietest voice speaks the loudest.
Rick writes:
“ After work I stopped by the Walmart to pick up a TV for my girlfriend. After circling the whole store in search of the bathroom before realizing it was right next to the entrance, I made my way back to the Electronics section and picked out a TV quickly. I wanted a midsize Vizio, so I chose the 37" 1080p Eco model. I purchased the TV with my debit card at one of the rear registers about 20 feet away, and walked to the front of the store carrying the box in both hands.
I made it through the first set of doors into the front atrium of the store, but before reaching the outer doors I heard a man say "Sir?" I turned and faced Tony, the receipt checker.
Tony: May I see your receipt? Me: No thanks! Tony: Oh, ok.
I turned and continued walking towards to automatic doors. Tony called again, so I turned back.
Tony: No, I need to see your receipt. Me: No thank you! Tony: What do you mean? Me: I mean no thanks; I'm walking to my car with my purchase. Tony: Well, I need to see your receipt. Me: I just purchased this TV in the back of the store. I don't need to show you a receipt. Tony: Yes, you need to show me your receipt. Me: Actually, state law dictates that once I pay for something, I don't need to show ownership of it. I just paid for this TV, the receipt is in my pocket, but my hands are full, and I don't feel like getting it out. I'm going to leave now, thank you.
At this point Tony has positioned himself between me and the door. As I step towards the door he places his hand on the box in my hands and lightly pushes back, preventing me from moving.
Me: You cannot prevent me from leaving the store with my purchase. Please move out of the way. Tony: I can't just let you leave the store with a TV without checking your receipt.
At this point a woman, who has been standing with her family near some vending machine starts throwing snide comments at me such as "Just show him the receipt; it's not that hard" and "god, you don't have to be such a prick about it." This continues on for the rest of my "stay" here, but I choose to ignore her.
Me: Are you unlawfully detaining me? Tony: I just want to need to see your receipt before you leave. Me: I have paid for this, I have the receipt, but as I have said, state law protects my right to not need to prove ownership of something I have purchased. You cannot physically prevent me from leaving the store. I am now going to leave the store.
I try and step around Tony, but he again pushes on the box in my hands to prevent me from moving anywhere.
Me: Are you illegally detaining me? Tony: Yeah, if that's what you want to call it. (Realizing he just said something bad) Listen, Walmart policy says that I need to check your receipt. Me: Then Walmart's policy is in violation of Virginia state law. They should have informed you that you don'tneed to see a receipt. Tony: (Misunderstanding me) How could they have told me already that you'd bought this? Me: No, when Walmart trained you, they should have informed you that you can't force people to show their receipts. You can only ask. Tony: I'm just a first-class worker, I don't know about any of that.
Now I am starting to fill like the prick the woman near us keeps calling me. This atrium has two exterior doors on opposite sides, so I turn around ready to walk towards the other door to leave, but another receipt checker has walked up at this time. I can't remember her name, so I'll refer to her as S, since I believe that's what her name started with.
S asks me what's going on, and I explain that I'd like to take my purchase to my car, but Tony is demanding me to show a receipt. S agrees with Tony that I need to show my receipt for "purchases like this". I give her the same explanation I gave Tony, that by state law, I don't need to prove ownership of something I just purchased.
Me: You are welcome to check the security tapes to verify that I just purchased this TV at one of the registers in the back, but I don't need to prove ownership. S: You need to show your receipt before you leave the store. Me: According to state law, I don't. S: Well I'm sorry, sir, but that's Walmart policy. Me: Then Walmart's policy is in violation of state law. S: It's not that hard to show a receipt. Me: No, it's not hard at all, but state law says I don't have to. I'm going to leave the store now. S: No, the store manager is coming. Me: When is the store manager coming? S: The assistant store manager... Me: When is the assistant store manager coming? S: Yeah, she'll be right here. Me: Ok.
I finally put the box on the floor. (Woman: "Now just take four fingers, put them in your pocket, take out the receipt..." I'm mentally yelling at her, but completely ignore her externally.) After waiting (what felt like) 2 minutes the assistant store manager appeared around the corner. S walked towards her, and I waved at the store manager to show I wasn't threatening nor uncomfortable with her arrival (in fact I welcomed it.) S pointed towards me and walked somewhere else, but Tony stayed behind me the whole time. I can't remember the assistant store manager's name, either, so I'll refer to her as M.
M: Hello, sir, how are you today? Me: I'm doing fine, but I'd like to leave the store with my purchase. M: Well, what's the problem? Me: Tony, here, says I can't leave unless I show my receipt. M: Do you have your receipt? Me: Yes, but I just purchased the TV in the back of the store and had my hands full with the box, so I didn't want to take it out. Tony physically prevented me from leaving the store. Now I'm refusing to show me receipt for the principle of the matter. State law dictates that I do not need to prove ownership of something I have purchased, meaning I do not need to show a receipt. M: Hmm. (She thinks for a bit.) Where did you buy the TV? Me: In the back of the store. M: (Thinks a bit more.) There are two registers in the back. Me: *sigh* I purchased the TV at the register closest to the front of the store. There was a man checking out with his family at the register nearest the rear of the store. I paid for the TV with my debit card, and then picked up the TV myself. The cashier asked if I was going to carry it, and I said "yes, it's light." I then walked to the front of the store. M: (Thinks a bit more, taken aback at the detailed report.) Ok, sir, it is your choice to leave the store with your purchase. Me: Thank you.
I pick up the box, turn around, and tell Tony to "have a good night" as I exit the store.
The thing is, I bear no ill will towards the Walmart employees. They were simply not educated as to their role and lawful restrictions. I thought Walmart would have fixed this issue after all of the heat they've gotten about it over the years, but clearly this store didn't get an internal memo. The situation could have definitely gotten worse. I'm almost glad the second checker arrived, as I don't know what Tony would have done had I tried to exit the store through the other door. (He is an older gentleman, so I don't think he would have tried to tackle me, but if he had actually placed a hand on me or otherwise gotten more physical, I would have been placed in a very awkward position.)
I don't think an email to a Walmart executive will do anything. I'm open to any advice on how to inform this store's management about the situation, so that they can properly train their employees. I feel badly about my interaction with Tony and M, since the honestly believed they were doing their jobs. I feel like I should stop by and give them gift cards for performing admirably in the tough situation Walmart has put them in, but that might be received poorly. ”
Contracts between private individuals are DIFFERENT than arrangements between individuals and governments.
BTW, it is common in much of the world for merchants to hire people to kidnap potential customers and drag them to their tents for trade. We don't do that.
In Walmart, I have found if I make eye contact and smile and say goodbye or have a nice day to the receipt person, they respond in kind and leave me alone. Also, if I have unbagged merchandise, I push the cart or carry it with receipt showing. They do not stop me.
On the other hand, I won’t shop someplace where I am treated like a potential thief (salesperson following you around). I was at Macy’s with a gift card and had a tough time deciding since the item I really wanted wasn’t there, so I spent a lot of time looking at everything in housewares. The sales lady kept following me around and asking if I needed help. It was very annoying.
She probably worked on commission. Often that happens in places where clerks *follow* you...typically they’ll tell you their name...and ssy something like, “I’ll be right there, if you need help.”;)
I worked at Wal-Mart years ago and even then we had people who would buy something, come back, pick up something else, and then try to walk out without paying and using the old receipt.
And can't a customer give away his receipt to someone else even before he reaches the front door?
And can't a customer sell his receipt to someone else even before he reaches the front door?
What right does Walmart have to expect a customer to assist Walmart in preventing shoplifting by others?
He said they'd come in wearing rain coats and there'd be someone underneath the other guy's legs reaching up to snag CDs.
There's no end to what thieves will try.
One day I was looking at a printer on sale in a box down on the lowest shelf at a Wal-Mart. Looking back at me was a camera pickup! There are thieves who simply can't imagine that Wal-Mart has thought of their tricks.
What right does the customer have to assume that Walmart will store his car for him while he's in the store?
I don’t at all mind if a clerk stops me when they suspect me of theft...if they’ve seen me conceal something in my jacket and watched me leave the store without paying for it...any more than I would mind my car being searched with probable cause or my person being stopped in a Terry stop situation.
However checking receipts is not like that. The act of walking out of a store holding a Wal-Mart bag in my hand is NOT probable cause that I am stealing something...and they have no right to detain me.
Thanks for the case law, it was interesting!
Ed
bookmarking
WalMart policy cannot trump legislation and natural law.
That’s where your whole thing kinda breaks down on you.
The standard for suspicion is:
1. See the article taken.
2. See it concealed.
3. See them leave the store without paying.
4. Never lose sight of the perp.
Anything other than that = guaranteed win in a lawsuit. And totally illegal.
That tacit agreement thing works both ways. I'm walking in with their tacit agreement that the rules they set forth won't violate my rights and that the rights of one of us end where the rights of the other begin. The real issue here is a conflict of rights and lack of a clear definition of where the one’s rights end and the other’s rights begin. By the way, these rules set forth by Wal Mart that we are supposed to abide by, where are they set forth? I don't recall ever seeing a sign or anything setting forth that I have to show my receipt on exiting. What are the other rules set forth somewhere that we have to abide by but don't know what are?
“If not they have the right to refuse you service.”
1. I've read that before. In this situation, I suppose they could ask someone to leave if they won't show their receipt. (I'm just pointing out the contradiction in the situation.)
2. Whether or not they actually have any kind of right to refuse service for breaking their rules would depend on what their rules are.
“When you purchased the TV, you again agreed to a set of rules set forth by Wal Mart called a purchase agreement. It includes the return policy etc.”
I don't recall ever seeing a purchase agreement at Wal Mart for me to agree to, or not. The return policy may be set forth on the receipt and signs in the service area, but I don't really have a choice about agreeing to it. They accept the return or the don't, their choice. Rules about check cashing are set forth at the registers. Rules about store hours and so on are set forth at the door. Rules about purchasing alcohol, tobacco, firearms, ammunition and so forth are set forth in the appropriate departments. I've never seen a rule set forth about showing a receipt at the door. Again, where is this rule set forth and what are the other rules I don't know about, which apparently are set forth someplace I don't know about?
“They are a private business, and therefore can set whatever rules they want to conduct business.”
No they can't. They are limited by law and the rights of others.
“You as a free American can choose to, or not to obey those rules. If you choose not to then you can choose to shop at another store whose rules you do agree with.”
Which stores, aside from the membership retailers, set forth all their rules where I can find them so I can know if I agree with them or not?
“You do not have any “right” to shop at Wal Mart, and you do not have the “right” to break Wal Mart’s rules, immediately after you entered an agreement to abide by those rules when you made your purchase.”
As a member of the public and absent anything else, I and my neighbors have a right to shop at Wal Mart due to the tacit agreement Wal Mart entered into when it opened a store to members of the public in my community and agreed to serve the community.
“If you don’t like Wal Mart’s door policy, shop elsewhere.”
That's an option in Lexington, perhaps less so in Jackson and Hazard.
“Let’s scrape away all of the BS here.”
Are you willing to start with post 304? (Sorry sort of, but I couldn't resist.)
Virginia's statutes are all on the side of the merchant ~ so why screw around with their employees.
Natural law is also on the side of Wal-Mart.
pflr
Even a lowly assistant manager of Walmart understands that they are way off base in demanding that a bill of sale be presented to them in order for a citizen to maintain their liberty and freedom. Your rights do not end at their property line. We got rid of that fifedom system when we cast off the King. As our founders said “Exercise your rights or loose them”.
The man had the Constitution and the law of Virginia on his side.
Valid only if you have at least Six figures in liquid assets, or a deposit account above $50,000.
Go get a job somewhere in Va. And attempt to stop me at the door when I refuse to show my receipt.
Name the place and time. I'll come.
I think we have plenty of laws available to beat you down ~ even before you leave home.
We call people like you Communists.
More capitalist than you by far. Gar-un-teed.
You’re just wrong on this issue. And I was giving you an opportunity to stand up and prove you weren’t.
You cannot detain, touch, stop, harass someone for not showing a receipt. Period.
You cannot exercise shopkeeper’s privilege until the prerequisites I’ve listed are met. Well, you CAN.... but it’s gonna cost you.
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