Posted on 01/22/2011 10:24:53 AM PST by Bigtigermike
I'm sick and tire some on our side buying into the myth that if we just "rise above the fray" from attacks that are scurrilous and baseless that we will somehow win the arguments against us! That's pure bull!
We are playing right into the hands of the MSM and liberals when we act civil and honorable "according to their rules of acting civil and honorable" which is to shut up and sit down about conservatism and not fight back. The only kind of people that the left and MSM consider honorable are people like Bob Dole and John McCain both of whom lost by not fighting.
Speaking of McCain, notice how 'civil' he was in 2008 "[Senator Obama] is a decent person and a person that you do not have to be scared about as President of the United States,". There's a difference between rhetoric and record, but you can still be respectful," McCain said to one questioner. "I will point out his record and I will do it with respect."
Did Obama act respectful and civil? Linking President Bush and Senator John McCain as partners in “the failed policies” of the past seven years and criticizing them for “hypocrisy, fear peddling, fear mongering.”? "They're going to try to make you afraid of me. They're going to say you know what, "He's young and inexperienced and he's got a funny name. Did I mention he's black?"
The MSM called McCain's rallies vitriolic and tinged with racism and hateful but said that Obama has run a clean, non-slanderous campaign and deserves respect. He is the one that wishes to address the issues and look how wonderful Obama is, he will help heal the nation.!!!
What happened in 2008 is almost happening in 2011 with the attacks on Sarah over the Tucson attacks; Barack Obama stood back for days and let his supporters in the media and left rip Palin apart, only then to proclaim that we don't really know what happened in Tuscon and let the media narrative was how wonderful Obama is!
But this time Sarah fought back after a few days and only had a few choice towards the media, and the left and media STILL ATTACKED HER OVER IT'!
If all the others here or pundits like Dick Morris or even FOX NEWS are gonna sit around and watch this happen and say "don't do nothing" or be tepid in a response at best then they need a brain analysis. If Conservatives cannot defend themselves over these baseless, libelous charges then they got no business running. period!
“Jesus did the same without crude and abusive language.”
Not as I recall the Temple scene where He unleashed his anger and threw the tables over. There is a place for righteous anger.
We have gained, not by being silent, but by getting in their faces and showing them up for the liars and hypocrites they are.
I am sure we are not talking about the same sort of "crude and offensive language" in these two instances. Jesus surely did not use the same sort of language and expression as I have witnessed in American discourse. If he did, then you can be sure I have a different translation of the Bible than yours.
My only hope is that good people can maintain a statesmanlike demenor when they discuss political issues. The sort of discourse in common use today can serve only to intensify the divide between Americans.
That may very well be the case, but it was not the intent. In my mind, "THE FRAY" is the abusive, angry, and vulgar discourse so common to the leftist diatribe directed at conservatives. I truely believe that there is no hope for compromise settlements as long as that sort of discourse is used. Both sides MUST return to the demeanor of good statesmanship in order to keep our form or governance working. If neither side is willing to do that, then we might as well start shooting; for, nothing will be accomplished with either side hurling obscene insults at each other.
If you look through my posts, you will see that I maintained this stance and consistantly defended my argument. Most others seem to be trying to justify brawling as a proper conduct, or work hard at berating me in spite of anything else I have said. I agree that I made a very poor entry into this thread; however, my intent was not meant to cast disparity on those to whom I directed those comments. I have stated this numerous times; and, you gentlepeople have rewarded me by calling me a liar. None of you have addressed the issues I have raised, nor discussed the points I have made in defense of "Rising above the fray", which is indeed the topic of this thread. All have attacked me personnally, and only obliquely the issues.
Never bring Marquis of Queensberry rules to a streetfight.
I agree wholeheartedly. But I am also sure that NO HEADWAY was made when conservatives used the same sort of abusive diatribe common to the left. Our progress was made entirely by the statesmanlike efforts of the Tea Party and the Congressmen who went about their duties professionally.
We should remember that we will maintain better traction if we conduct ourselves as civilized people who have an education and can control our use of language. I am not at all inclined to listen to a person who is spewing obsenities at me; yet, I will listen to ANYONE who will sit with me an calmly state his viewpoint. It will not be possible to put this Nation back on a decent course unless a spirit of compromise is restored to political discourse. Always remember that the majority party in a Republic must provide parity for the minority. Failing to do so is the way pure democracy works ... and those always fail. A democracy is "Two wolves and a sheep discussing what they have for dinner".
See there? We have common ground! ;-D
Actually, post #7 did not per se
accuse anyone of using crude and abusive language.
It could have been INFERRED that it did—but, in fact, it did not.
It merely noted that Christ was forceful without using crude and abusive language. And, it evidently encouraged more of HIS more Mat 5-6 mode
than it did His calling the pharisees out as white-washed tombs, vipers, sons of satan.
This kind of thread automatically triggers a lot of pent up emotions on all sides. The current frustration, anger, even despair is quite high amongst conservatives for good reason.
However, that’s all the more reason we’d do better not to eat our own.
I think GingisK wants our side to be MORE EFFECTIVE for our cause.
And ClearCase_guy and NoGray Zone and the rest also WANT OUR SIDE TO BE MORE EFFECTIVE.
Perspectives differ on WHAT WOULD TRULY BE
MORE EFFECTIVE.
We CAN differ without shredding one another. Let us shred the leftist traitors and not one another.
Personally, I think there are times and places for both a more winsome approach of even tempered civil words
and
there’s times and places for very fiercely pointed rants. I don’t think one size fits all in such a complex world.
Perhaps, GingisK . . . some of us find it much more something—reasonable—to give equal emotional intensity back at the other side in some contexts and to avoid coming off as the weaker side merely because we SOUND WIMPY with all our politeness.
On the other side, I think GingisK may want us to avoid coming across as insane, crazed, irrational screaming Nazi’s in the town square on the public stage. I think he understandably sees that as very counter-productive.
I think there are lots of points between on the continuum.
And, wisdom is certainly better than foolishness—regardless if which mode we are communicating in.
imho, my 2 cents.
FWIW.
Sounds like a case of battles and when to take them. All battles are not meant for all men. All battles are presented to all men. When the cause is great enough, all men will battle.
However, . . . and I don’t know how one always manages to do so without “stooping to their level”—which I’m not in support of . . .
nevertheless,
MANY TIMES, THE DULLED SENSES OF THE MASSES AND CERTAINLY OF THE OTHER SIDE—SIMPLY DO NOT HEAR ANYTHING OF SUBSTANCE
UNLESS
IT’S COMMUNICATED WITH FIERCE INTENSITY—SOMEWHAT ON A PAR WITH THEIR ABSURD LANGUAGE—BUT HOPEFULLY NOT EQUAL TO IT IN VULGARITY.
assuming
based on an
INFERENCE
is not an accurate description of reality.
Oh, please. You want to talk about "ruffians"? Take a good hard look into the faces of the enemy right outside your comfortable abode, and tell me if you think you can have anything like a civil conversation with them.
The people who are destroying your country aren't civil. They're monsters, who would just as soon cut your throat and leave your life gushing out onto the pavement, than have a "civil" argument with you.
Take your naivete and stuff it in your snuff box.
Excellent, now in the spirit of the new civility, here is some Obama Cake
I see that as reading too much into what GK wrote.
His paragraph structure was unfortunate.
However, he did not accuse anyone specific of anything in post #7.
Me made an assertion about Jesus words.
He did not make an assertion about anyone else’s words.
Unfortunately, we are being backed into a corner of speech control. Their language use in not “skillful.” We lost the language war by complacently allowing “hate speech” and “hate crimes” into our judicial system. Recapturing unrestricted use of language is ESSENTIAL for maintaining our freedom.
Actually, I think that’s a good point.
VERY EXCELLENT POINTS YOU MADE:
That was my first thought, always be above the fray so you have the best vantage point.
I’m very conservative but I don’t run around pushing my beliefs on people because it can’t be done. I’ve watched vocal right-wingers and left-wingers leave their audiences cold. I bide my time and many, many times I have just the right opportunity to state the truth when people are receptive.
It is the same way with religion. People HATE people running around asking “Are you saved?”. My SIL has so many people backed into a corner about religion that they just don’t want to admit that they even are Christian.
It was not the lack of harshness of language, it was the total lack of expressing any dissent that got us here.
plenty true.
Nonsense.
There’s plenty of thin-skinned hair-trigger brittleness to go around.
You are assuming and inferring.
And, inaccurately from what I know of GengisK;
Good points.
Then you should realize problem isn't with the rest of the world. To see the source of the problem you need only look in the mirror.
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