Posted on 01/10/2011 8:03:13 PM PST by Ramius
This is a topic that I have considered posting for a long time. I'm hoping to generate some good quality discussion, becuase I think this really matters. I don't know the answers. I hope that with some vigorous discussion maybe some good actionable ideas will come out.
The exercise is this: You are out and about, let's say... at a shopping mall. It could be anywhere, of course. But for the purposes of this exercise we're at a shopping mall. You're looking at a nice pair of boots in the window of some store-- suddenly the unmistakable sound of gunshots ring out. Someone is actively shooting nearby. We will assume for this exercise that:
-- You are lawfully carrying your concealed weapon. -- You are the sort that is running toward the sound of the guns.
So here are the questions:
1.) How do we recognize each other? Presumably, in a busy mall, it's entirely likely that more than one person with a CCW will respond to the sound of the guns. You run to the sound, but how do you know if when you see a guy with a gun, he's the guy with the gun that matters? What do we do about that?
Finding another CCW carrier to team up with is a huge force multiplier... but how do we recognize each other in a split second? Some of the alternatives are disastrous.
2.) How do we identify and distinguish ourselves to the police? The police will show up, and in ginormous numbers. Sooner or later the place will be crawling with them. How do we ~not~ be "the guy with a gun" they are looking for?
Let's face it... when there's an active shooter situation going on, when the cops show up (or even when some other CCW carriers show up) it's REALLY important that everybody understands who the threats are and who they aren't.
So. How do we do that?
And as far as the police, I am putting the gun down and placing my hands up and declaring that I have a CHL and I was a responder.
Saw on Fox n Friends this morning...one of the responders was a CCW holder going about his business. Look it up, cuz I’ll paraphrase.
He claims that he heard shots, came around the corner with his hand in his CCW jacket pocket, saw the supposed shooter on the ground with a man standing over him with the slide locked in a non-threatening manner. CCW holder removed his hand and went over to assist in restraining the shooter.
If true, and not a super cool hindsight moment of what-if’s, this is responsible response to a shooting.
Recap:
Evaluate threat and surroundings.
Keep cool and do not shoot the first gun wielder you see.
Assist in alerted capacity.
I’ve thought about my own response in a hopefully never encountered situation. I can imagine a violent gun-wielding offender as not appearing too much like a cop, as he is methodically shooting his victims. I would assume that the safest way for me to present myself in the equation is to act as similarly to a responsible LEO as possible. For example, command presence verbally, announce yourself as a responder, as in...”Stop! Drop your weapon! I will be forced to shoot!,” and the like.
I’m not a professional, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express at some point, so take my advice as you wish.
Oh... and I forgot to add: If the shooter is female, don’t worry - Laz will hit it and she will have to stop shooting!
Just a thought: The guy or gal shooting willy nilly, especially targeting innocents is probably the bad guy. The guy moving in a tactical manner attempting to close on the willy nilly guy in order to observe or engage is probably a good guy.
I also teach rapid response. We teach to respond to the gun shots.
That being said: keep your firearm either concealed or in low ready. I would follow all of the advice previously listed and make sure your loved ones are secured or evacuated.
Absolutely. The first choice for civilians, armed or unarmed in an active shooter situation is to escape.
I don’t know why we are even discussing this. Just post a “no guns allowed” sign and this would not happen. Just ask a Liberal. All we need is more laws. (s)
Some good stuff there, Travis.
You make a good point, about keeping the weapon out of sight except when you’re actively using it. But is that realistic? If I’ve taken a couple of shots at a shooter, presuming without effect... and he’s moving, so I have to move and seek some other cover.... is it really going to occur to me to re-holster and conceal my weapon?
When he cops come in... do we just then give the situation over to them? I suppose we do. But still there’s the part about not getting shot.
Good point.
What the heck was I thinking?
You go to the source of the sound and you shoot the somb!tch dead.
Ideally, yes... and then the cops see you with a gun in your hand and kill you.
There’s been some good comments on this. I hope we get some more.
Then I say blast 'em. They should have to pay her, just like everyone else.
8^D
On YouTube:
1. find ‘nutnfancy’.
2. look to find “Sheepdpg Concept”, and “Close To Engage”.
Well thought-out videos, more than 3 minutes long, so be ready.
I pray I never have to do anything beyond defending myself or loved ones.
I dont even want to experience that, but at least you might have time to call the cops and report the scenario yourself, so they don’t ventilate you when they respond.
“How do we recognize each other?”
I’m tall, brown hair, blue eyes and a beard. More than likely I’ll be the enormous guy with the Keltec 32 ACP barely sticking out of my hand. Or some days, a Series 70 Gold Cup. Or a Model 15 Smith. Or something else.
And if you’ve saved an innocent, the risk was worth it.
My concealed firearm is first and foremost for my own personal protection.
I am not a cop.
It is not my responsibility to defend the public and get my self killed, or possibly hurt innocent people by shooting back into a chaotic situation unless I absolutely HAVE to...ie: I see no other way out and I know I’m going to be targeted/killed.
Shooting should always be the last resort.
Agreed.
Even if things come out your way, are you prepared for the legal fees that are about to come your way in the defense of strangers?
I would not wish to be in that situation.
I forgot who said it but I think it was Dr Ignatius who runs Front Sight; in a real life situation you are only going to be functioning at 70% of your skill level due to the stress and adrenalin of the moment. So basically unless you have been through On Point Tactical or Front Sight you are more likely to get yourself killed or kill bystanders in a Mall shooting situtation. You are much better off to get yourself and whoever else you can to safety. If you need to use your weapon along the way then so be it.
CCL is for self defense. You are not the police and you are not carrying an assault weapon. Run away from the sound of gunfire.
“For example, command presence verbally, announce yourself as a responder, as in...”Stop! Drop your weapon! I will be forced to shoot!,” and the like.”
I’m not sure that is the best idea - just shoot him.
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