True causes for extinction of cave bear revealed

Over time with the overburden of ice removed, those bodies would rebound.

Of course...and the US is still recovering from the last glaciation (durn Canadians dumping the Great Lakes onto us!). Sure, there's isostatic forebulge and there's gravitational effects, but their magnitude are insufficient to support (literally and figuratively) an ice-dam situation for a more heavily glaciated Antarctica.

This is simply more like a very large ice dam on the order of thousands of feet in height that has a wide area collapse. The water behind the dam simply pours out as fast as gravity can sustain the project. Kind of like a Johnstown Flood on steroids.

Like Bretz flooding, right? Well, where's the support for this wall that the circumpolar circulation keeps frozen? Meltwater above and saltwater below?

And don't forget you're in a divergent (polar) condition, where an MLD of a given magnitude would rapidly disperse as it moved away from the point-source. The Channeled Scablands are...channeled. Without channeling, in the open ocean, you would be dispersing this pulse of excess water.

Where are you getting these hypotheses? Has any modeling (like Komatsu's) been done to estimate this? I'd be interested in any citations. I've been out of that literature for a while now.

Thanks.

You know as fast as world temperatures rose 14000 years ago this would need to go on only a few decades at most, and it would be over in hours although the global tsunami would be traveling North at just under the speed of sound.

Here's where the idea comes from ~ years back I found that the island of Penang didn't have any dirt when the Chinese first arrived (circa 1398 or thereabouts). This was where the Ming elected to establish their base of operations for their Treasure Fleet under Admiral He.

So, how big a tsunami would it take to remove the dirt from Penang, and was that just on the plain below, or did this continue up the hills to the highest elevation of about 2400 feet.

Further research didn't reveal anything, but the Chinese had a well established regime for bringing in the materials they needed to make soil and did so.

We've all seen what just a modest tsunami can do to Indonesia as well as the entire Indian Ocean coastline. Even more recently the Andaman Islands had a fault break/slip and the tsunami warning went up ~ a modest tsunami would have washed over Penang island like it was a turtle in a pond ~ and they'd been back to "no soil".

Fortunately there was no tsunami.

So, looking at Lake Agassiz and the recurring problems with faults near/around Indonesia and what tsunami do, and the damage Lake Agassiz created when the ice dam broke, just scale that up a thousand times.

This isn't a difficult scenario to envison.

You know as fast as world temperatures rose 14000 years ago this would need to go on only a few decades at most, and it would be over in hours although the global tsunami would be traveling North at just under the speed of sound.

Though the glacial collapse was rapid, I think you're a bit lost on the scales, both temporal and spatial.

Here's where the idea comes from ~ years back I found that the island of Penang didn't have any dirt when the Chinese first arrived (circa 1398 or thereabouts). This was where the Ming elected to establish their base of operations for their Treasure Fleet under Admiral He.

I admit not being familiar with that chronicle, nor that Admiral He set up base at Penang (I know he stopped at Melacca [sp?], but not that he had set up a base nearby). But I suspect you're taking the translation too literally and anachronistically, much like George Washington wasn't meaning his troops were running around Burning Man style when he spoke of them being "naked" (the term meant that their clothing was inappropriate for the weather, not that they had none). Perhaps you read "barren" and it was meant as "unproductive soils" rather than "bare of soils"?

What's most compelling to me is physical evidence. It's quite clear that Penang now has a thick residual (i.e., developed in-situ) soil cover. Though the authors of that paper are engineers--and might therefore use "soil" in the engineering sense--they quite clearly define their study as being focused on residual soils. So what you would ask us to accept is that for nearly 14,000 years, no soil developed, but then in the past 600 years, we have residual soils. Admittedly, anthropogenic fill could prevent erosion of residual soils that would otherwise be washed away, but the geography and modern observations don't support that as relevant.

Besides, you'll note that the depth to bedrock, regardless of catena, is generally greater than 5 meters....even up to 40 meters! By my rough calculation, covering the island with only 5 meters of soil would require more than 300 million dump truck trips! By comparison, the Great Pyramids would have been a preschool project. That there would be little evidence of this is inconceivable, especially considering the island was uninhabited when discovered by Europeans a couple of centuries later.

This isn't a difficult scenario to envison.

In the absence of evidence, yes. But when we look at physics involved and the actual data, we see that the hypothesis is untenable and should be rejected.

If you don't, though, you could write it up, throwing in something about this being the origin of the deluge myth--and then claim to have found a lost Velikovsky manuscript! ;-)

Although Penang Island is within the Toba zone of destruction, the soil could have simply disappeared the day before Admiral He's people arrived. I didn't say it never had soil ~ just that when they arrived it was mostly bare rock and gravel, so they made soil.

BTW, there's no dispute on this island being the headquarters for the Ming Treasure Ship fleet. There is a "skip" in settlement since the Ming shut down the fleet and pulled everyone back to China.

Note, you must be very careful to differentiate Penang, the island, from Penang, the state. Intriguingly "they" found the oldest building ever built in Penang state last year. It appears to have been some sort of business office like a tax collector would use.

BTW, the island goes up to 2400 feet. Not knowing how high a tsunami would need to be to give the Ming the idea it was "barren" let's say 500 ft would probably do the job. Hillsides could probably supply whatever else was needed for rebuilding.

Settlement in this area has been very slow to arrive ~

Note, you must be very careful to differentiate Penang, the island, from Penang, the state.

I took it you meant the island. You didn't mean the state, did you?!

And are you now saying that the tsunami didn't wash over the island like a turtle, but just lapped upon the shores?

That argument still doesn't hold water, as the mineralogy of the residual soil is documented and shows that it is formed in-situ, not brought in from the hillsides. And even in the tropical climate, it didn't form in 600 years.

With no evidence of a tsunami washing the soil from Penang, even in the lowlands, the whole idea falls apart and confirms the lack of evidence or plausible mechanism elsewhere.

Although Penang Island is within the Toba zone of destruction, the soil could have simply disappeared the day before Admiral He's people arrived. I didn't say it never had soil ~ just that when they arrived it was mostly bare rock and gravel, so they made soil.

I thought the lack of soil was the basis of your Antarctica MLD-megatsunami hypothesis, by implying it was evidence a tsunami at 14.5ka had washed it off.