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To: parsifal

Also, Vattel didn’t include the translation “natural born citizen” until AFTER the Constitution was written. The word he used in French was simply repeated in early English translations, and has since entered our language as ‘indigenous’.

If the Founders were relying on Vattel, they would have said the President must be an indigenous native...


79 posted on 05/14/2010 7:12:17 PM PDT by Mr Rogers
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To: Mr Rogers

It’s the ‘translation’ dead horse again. Let’s ignore that the definition of natural born citizen proposed in Minor v. Happersett and cited by Wong Kim Ark appeared in a passage on ‘natives and citizens’ of whom Vattel described citizenship as ‘naturally’ following at birth the condition of the father. Wow, no one would ever equate natural citizenship at birth with the contemporaneously used term natural born citizen.


82 posted on 05/14/2010 7:17:28 PM PDT by edge919
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To: Mr Rogers; bushpilot1; All

> Also, Vattel didn’t include the translation “natural born citizen”
> until AFTER the Constitution was written.

Well then, feel free to use Blackstone to define
Obama's status as the son of a British subject:

Obama Blackstone - Allegience is PERMANENT

Photobucket


- OR -

If you wish, use Dicey's “Conflict of Laws”,
a chief citation used by Justice Gray in Wong Kim Ark v. U.S. (1898):

"A child whose father's father (paternal grandfather) was born within the British dominions is a natural-born British subject, even though the child's father and the child himself were not born within the British dominions." (Hint: This would DIRECTLY IMPACT Barack Hussein Obama and his lineage to his British father as a British subject, regardless of Obama Jr's birthplace).

Pick your poison ... carefully.


87 posted on 05/14/2010 7:42:57 PM PDT by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: Mr Rogers
The word he used in French was simply repeated in early English translations, and has since entered our language as ‘indigenous’.

Indigenous has been in the English language since well before 1760.

From Merriam Webster:

Main Entry: in·dig·e·nous
Pronunciation: \in-ˈdi-jə-nəs\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Late Latin indigenus, from Latin indigena, noun, native, from Old Latin indu, endo in, within + Latin gignere to beget — more at end-, kin
Date: 1646

1 : having originated in and being produced, growing, living, or occurring naturally in a particular region or environment
2 : innate, inborn
synonyms see native

Now it may have entered English from French, or more precisely Norman. The Norman Invasion of English was in 1066. (A date which my world history teacher put great emphasis upon. As in "You will Remember when William the Conqueror invaded England." (Although he did teach us that before 1066 William was known as "William the Bastard" because of the illegitimacy of his birth.

He had a very weak claim to the throne, his great aunt was the mother he certainly was not a natural born Englishman, having been born in Falaise, Normandy, France.

294 posted on 05/15/2010 11:01:50 PM PDT by El Gato ("The second amendment is the reset button of the US constitution"-Doug McKay)
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To: Mr Rogers
If the Founders were relying on Vattel, they would have said the President must be an indigenous native...

Unless they had Ben Franklin, or any number of others, such as John Jay, translate it directly from the French. A goodly fraction of the founders could read and speak French. Not G. Washington, but many of the others. Most especially Franklin, who though he learned it much later than most, was indeed quite fluent, as many a Mademoiselle and Madame found out, to their general delight. :)

295 posted on 05/15/2010 11:04:49 PM PDT by El Gato ("The second amendment is the reset button of the US constitution"-Doug McKay)
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