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1 posted on 04/29/2010 8:58:35 PM PDT by se_ohio_young_conservative
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative
See a lot of short answers on this thread that basically say, “Yes.” Agreed. But there is a more important issue.

God gave us free will. That is the entire point about Adam and Eve's failing in the Garden and people's failings throughout the Bible. For without free will, there cannot be love of others, let alone love of God. And what is Hell (not used as a curse word) but God allowing us to choose to live eternally devoid of His presence?

I have been down a path at least somewhat similar to what your wife has partially traveled. Have gone from Catholic to Protestant to deist to some very strange places to atheist and finally back to God as a Christian who believes in Him, His Son, and the Word (albeit imperfectly so and nominally in a Catholic form).

Pray for her. It really does matter. Be patient. The bigger issue is her soul. Stick with it. I pray she will come around. But it must be her choice.

It's fairly apparent you already know that, but I thought it might help to hear (read) it from someone else.

30 posted on 04/29/2010 9:20:32 PM PDT by piytar (Ammo is hard to find! Bought some lately? Please share where at www.ammo-finder.com)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

Everyone lives by a moral code. By itself that’s not anything to brag about, as everyone does. Everyone also tends to believe they are better than they actually are, relatively speaking.

If you’re not trying to live a moral code based on objective standards set by God, you only have to live up to whatever standards you decide are right. Of course some people have higher standards than others, but in the end if there’s no reason outside of yourself to act in certain ways, however you’re living is based on what you want to do or not do, and your own internal rationalizations (sound or not).

Can she be a ‘good’ mom? Yes. Can she be a ‘good’ person? As far as society is concerned, yes. Can she be a ‘good’ person in God’s eyes? On her own, no. She can be a moral person (all people are, their codes vary), she may even have high moral and ethical standards, but that will not save her. None of our good deeds save us.

God will judge her however in perfect fairness and justice, as He will everyone.


32 posted on 04/29/2010 9:23:23 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

People who profess any religion, or none, can be good conservatives in principle, although there are some interesting subtleties to be considered.

In one sense, atheism, in its unsentimental rejection of that which lacks empirical evidence, and its embrace of the reality of nature, is a good template for the rejection of much of fuzzy-headed bleeding-heart liberalism which is (it should be acknowledged) a secularization of a particular strain of 19th/20th century Christian charitable impulse.

In another sense, though, atheism, at least its more evangelical forms, is hard to square with good Burkeanism — a good Burkean is loathe to tear down institutions (such as churches) which have been bulwarks of stability and inculcation of socially-useful values and practices for many generations.


33 posted on 04/29/2010 9:23:45 PM PDT by only1percent
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

We have some flaky, flamboyant atheists here that are merely interested in economics, but we have at least a couple of atheists that seem truly, and thoroughly conservative, that are quiet about it and that don’t seem very interested in mentioning it, the only way you learn it, is when it comes up in a dispassionate way.


35 posted on 04/29/2010 9:24:35 PM PDT by ansel12 (Romney-"I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there")
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative
Politics and religion are not necessarily linked.

It's like asking if a Bhuddist can be a conservative...

37 posted on 04/29/2010 9:26:18 PM PDT by Mariner
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative
Your wife is where I was about 10 years ago. I was conservative then, and I am even more conservative now. Just for the record I have an extremely strong faith in God. Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior.

I went down a similar path as your wife. When people would tell me this in the past, “Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior” ... I just thought they were a little on the crazy side, old fashion, but well meaning people. I thought I was so smart and they were just desperate or looking for a meaning in life.

I can tell you now with 100% certainty that God exist. Keep in mind I was where your wife was from about 1981 until 2005. I went to college and lived the wild life, etc.. Oh and btw, I have even a better life now. I still have a lot of fun and enjoy reading and talking to God.

At any rate I hope this helps you out.

39 posted on 04/29/2010 9:29:08 PM PDT by Sprite518
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

I would also add that it is one thing to ‘get tired of’ organized religion. It is another thing to not believe in God anymore. Make certain which one it is. If it is the former, encourage her to reconnect with God through the Bible at her own pace, read a little bit each day.

The way you describe her upbringing makes me think the ‘religious’ aspect of things turned her off, not necessarily God Himself. If that’s the case there might be some hope for her.


40 posted on 04/29/2010 9:30:19 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative
Beck has exaggerated the faith of some of the founders on his show. It is debatable bordering on dishonest to portray Jefferson as a Christian; he certainly was not one in the conventional sense. Beck made a big deal of the fact that Jefferson had his own version of the New Testament; he failed to mention that Jefferson thought his version -- with many omissions of canonical scripture -- was the only authentic one.

Franklin believed very much in God but was no Christian, he was frequently derisive of Christianity, and though he had some mellower things to say about Jesus late in his life, he never accepted Jesus' divinity, and found Christianity "unintelligible."

"The experience of the United States is a happy disproof of the error so long rooted in the unenlightened minds of well-meaning Christians, as well as in the corrupt hearts of persecuting usurpers, that without a legal incorporation of religious and civil polity, neither could be supported. A mutual independence is found most friendly to practical Religion, to social harmony, and to political prosperity. [James Madison, Letter to F.L. Schaeffer, Dec 3, 1821]"

"The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State." James Madison, 1819.

Even those founders who were men of faith believed in the separation of church and state. It is a lie that the phrase "separation of church and state" was not part of their common discourse." It was. It is true that for many conservatives, conservatism has a religious basis, but, it is neither necessary nor sufficient to produce sound conservative principles, reasoning, or outcomes.

There are lots of us like your wife.

42 posted on 04/29/2010 9:31:47 PM PDT by FredZarguna ("I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.")
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative
But can't a person be a conservative, pro life and atheist ? and still love their country just as much as I do ? ... How many out there are like my wife ?

It is interesting, to say the least, that you think your wife could be a demographic of one.

I am a conservative, albeit with some libertarian leanings, love my country, am a veteran of the US Navy, believe abortion is another word for murder, and am a small "a" atheist. That is to say, I am not out there trying to convert anyone to Celebrity Atheism, it's just that I have seen some of the worst humanity has to offer its fellows, both as a sailor and as a deputy in law enforcement, and if there is a God, He is not the mover and shaker He was in the Old Testament, so Nietzsche was right. God is dead, and what Nietzsche feared most has come to pass--nothing compelling to serve to bolster human morality ever replaced Him. The Supermen who arrived had to be killed by random Communist soldiers and Allied Western Forces. The hippie boomers and their worship of the pill were the wake.

I find the conservative schism between Mormons and mainline Christians a much more dynamic problem here than that posed by the few atheist conservatives who dare to be completely different in our corner of the Big Tent.

When one boils it right down, Mormons and other Christians are really arguing about whose man made tales have more of the "ring of truth" about them. It's totally silly. I harbor no illusions that we are all anything more than allies of convenience against the forces of true evil, a.k.a. liberals and leftists, but that will have to be enough.
51 posted on 04/29/2010 9:45:13 PM PDT by Goldsborough
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative
That got me thinking. I know this country was founded by men of faith. I know many of us conservatives are religious. But can't a person be a conservative, pro life and atheist ? and still love their country just as much as I do ? ... How many out there are like my wife ?

My husband, an atheist, is conservative and pro life. As far as love of country, he and I both love it as our founders envisioned it. The progressives have destroyed any resemblance of the original.

61 posted on 04/29/2010 9:57:11 PM PDT by Razz Barry (Round'em up, send'em home.)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

I think you can be politically conservative and an atheist.

I don’t think we need to do anything special to court atheists.

Conservatism makes sense. Liberalism doesn’t. An intellectually honest atheist would be conservative.


78 posted on 04/29/2010 10:26:49 PM PDT by Persevero (If man evolved from monkeys and apes, why do we still have monkeys and apes?)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

Yes. Morality is not derived exclusively from a belief in god. Wisdom is a great source of morals. Confucianism for example, is quite compatible with conservatism, and it is not based on a belief in god.

I think the opposite is more true, that is, a strong fundamentalist religious believer is less likely to make a good freedom loving conservative, since often they view other religions as anti god and look to suppress them.


88 posted on 04/29/2010 10:40:37 PM PDT by aquila48
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

While conservatism reflects the golden rule and the principles of the Ten Commandments, it isn’t necessary for someone to be a Christian to borrow those principles. A Christian can be a conservative, should be, in my opinion, but conservatism isn’t Christianity. Christianity, the Kingdom of Heaven, has influenced America, and a lot of people have benefited from that influence, Christians and non Christians alike. I’ve read a number of comments by agnostics and atheists over the years who recognize the positive influence of those Christian values. All that is required to be a conservative is good sense and good principles.


101 posted on 04/29/2010 10:54:37 PM PDT by pallis
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

Of course. Just because you don’t believe in G-d does not mean He does not believe in you. You can still be quite the conservative even if you aren’t sure just Who granted us these freedoms.


104 posted on 04/29/2010 11:00:15 PM PDT by Yaelle
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

A conservative understands what our founding documents say and mean... and believes in it.

If our freedom is a gift from God, how can an atheist share this understanding with conservatism?

Conservative in what regards I might ask?... what a vague term it is... “conservative”... do we know what it means?... how many different definitions will we get if we ask for it?

I don’t think there’s any question what an atheist is.

Can an atheist and conservative share principles? well of course they can. But only one will know WHY they work.


110 posted on 04/29/2010 11:06:51 PM PDT by Safrguns
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

If they vote conservative, I’m happy. I don’t care how they arrive at the idea.


113 posted on 04/29/2010 11:09:22 PM PDT by SaxxonWoods (Gone Galt and loving it)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative
To paraphrase our greatest President, (along w/Reagan), and a Christian himself:

'It matters nary to me if my neighbor believes in one God, a hundred Gods, or no God'

In other words, tend to your own business.

119 posted on 04/29/2010 11:19:28 PM PDT by jla
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

What I’ve noticed is that most of the atheists hang out on crevo threads. They consider themselves conservative because they have thought through many issues and arrived at some very rational political positions. But when push comes to shove, they shove good conservatives under the bus when they can. Atheism combined with scientism is their religion.


130 posted on 04/29/2010 11:47:23 PM PDT by Kevmo (So America gets what America deserves - the destruction of its Constitution. ~Leo Donofrio, 6/1/09)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

Yes.

But he should be watched.


131 posted on 04/29/2010 11:48:07 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan (In Edward Kennedy's America, federal funding of brothels is a right, not a privilege.)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

I have been an atheist ever since I learned, at a young age, just what a bullying, abusive, money grubbing, sham most organized religious organizations are.

Once old enough to think for myself I did my own study of comparative religions.
All of them simply shake out as fairy tales or odious attempts at intimidation to me.

I have been told that I am “To the right of Genghis Kahn”.
Since the people saying it are also very conservative, I take it as a compliment.

Many of my fellow conservatives are also devout, none have ever tried to expel me for my disbelief.

Being a constitutional originalist does not require religion, just lots of patience.


133 posted on 04/29/2010 11:51:29 PM PDT by Loyal Sedition
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