SpikeTV AK47 vs. AR15 Vanity

April 18, 2010 | Me

[goodwithagun]

Informal poll: SpikeTV is showing a Deadliest Warrior rerun. It has the Taliban vs. IRA. The IRA is testing the AR15 against the Taliban with the AK47. I vote for the AK47. I would like to know what you think.

[Knitebane]

I'll give you a ring someday soon. Gotta brag on Mrs. Knitebane. She's got the steel match bug. Up until the owner at PDHSC canceled it this month we've been every month for about a year. She's moved up from the Beretta Neos U22 (with a pink grip, no less) to a Browning Buckmark.

After much study we've decided to save up for this for Mrs. Knitebane:

Hmmm. Looks like FRs image displaying went south too....

Anyway, we've going to get an FN PS90 for her. It's not a real battle rifle but like you said, I wouldn't want to face her with a couple of 30 round mags.

There's just something about a round coming out of the end of the barrel of a bullpup at 3050fps, ya know?

[hiredhand]

...91 rounds of SS109 in / on the weapon...

I have got to git me one of those Redi-Mags! It's on my list. :-)

[Knitebane]

I forgot to mention...have you SEEN the prices on the piston kits for the AR?! Sheesh...

Yes I have!

I'd be appalled but then I look down at the list of things we've bought in the past two years that go BANG and figure we could have bought a couple of them for what we've spent on friggin .22s!

Seriously, switching to shooting .22 didn't make shooting any cheaper. We just bought more guns and LOTS and LOTS of .22 ammo.

[hiredhand]

I have THOROUGHLY enjoyed shooting .22 lately! We've got a GOOD place too!...as long as my buddy keeps it bush hogged! It's 300 yards and we put staggered targets every 50 yards. We could probably stretch another 100 out of it, but that would put us close to a guy who has displayed unfriendliness and where we shoot now, he can't come near...not without us telling him to get bent and to go away. :-)

I've been shooting that little Ruger 10/22 Carbine Compact that I got for Christmas. :-) It's a blast! At 200 yards, it's a LOT like .308 at 600 (or so). I NEED to do something about the short stock though...it's way too short for me, but I'm just dealing with it right now. I'll probably also pick up a different barrel for it soon...and then it won't be a "carbine compact" anymore!... but that's O.K. :-)

Steel Match? ...as in plates? The PS90 is an "interesting" weapon... ammo is expensive though. :-)

Absolutely...give me a ring, and we'll go shoot something. :-)

[CodeToad]

“SOCOM seems to like the 416”

Some do. Some don’t. Don’t forget that some like to have pet projects instead of doing their day job. I’ve never met a perfect rifle. I’ve met lots of good ones, some more practical than others. The AR platform is practical. The AK is, too, for its intended purpose. I don’t like it as it rattles and jumps and has the ergonomics of a bag of door knobs.

Never assume that a “cool” title like SOCOM means diddley. It’s like every manufacturer that sends the SEALs a component or a weapon then claims, “The SEALs use it!” Not really. They don’t. They looked at it. They might have even sent one overseas for a small personal trial. Heck, that SEAL might have used it once and threw it out as junk, but the company will still claim, “The SEALs use it!”

Take the Luminox watches. “The SEALs use it!” I like the watches. I am wearing the Limunox 8400 right now. I love it. It lights up continuously, is made of metal, water proof beyond any diving I ever do, takes a beating (Lost one to a tiller once when tilling the backyard. It went round and round throught the tines and I still have it. Got a new one but that one still works.), and I like the bezel. I bet not a single SEAL wears one. It’s $480 and has a crystal face that while tough will scratch. I’d wear something a little cheaper and replaceable if I were a SEAL, but this little number is my favorite every day watch. Again, I bet not a single SEAL wears one but Luminox touts, “The SEALs use it!”

[Squantos]

Good grab and go tool for spare ammo.........but then now days if I can’t solve the problem with one magazine or a lot less I should be departing the scene ..........;o)

[Knitebane]

I picked up a Beretta Neos U22 as well. I ended up swapping out my longer barrel with Mrs. Knitebane's shorter one. I put a holo sight on mine and do respectably. It would help if I stuck to one gun.

I don't recall if I told you but I finally found a Remington Model 34. It's a bona-fide squirrel murderer. Did Remington make ANY 34's that didn't shoot well?

We've been doing most of our shooting at PDHSC down on Tryon Road in south Raleigh. It's convenient to my job. On weekends we try to make it out to WT's in Goldsboro. The range there is slightly smaller but very modern and well lit. That's probably a bit of a drive for you though. ;)

[hiredhand]

Honestly... I keep a spare mag next to the rifle, and if I have to see why the dogs are going crazy or things go bump in the dark, I grab it and put it in my back pocket.... that makes a total of 56 rds (28 in each mag)...which would be a LOT of noise by anybody's measure!

Did I tell you about me and the youngest here?... not long ago the dogs all went berserk in the kitchen, and SP said, "SOMETHING is ON the back porch!" We went out the back door in a hurry armed for bear and THOUGHT the skunk was on the back porch with us! :-) Thankfully, it was NOT... but it wasn't far away! We tracked it through the snow to the woods just north and weren't in the mood to follow. :-)

Good grab and go tool for spare ammo.........but then now days if I can’t solve the problem with one magazine or a lot less I should be departing the scene ..........;o)

[hiredhand]

Neos eh? Bring one out!...please. :-) I'd like to shoot it! :-) I think I do remember you telling me that you found a Remington Model 34. I gave mine to the youngest here after they gave me that Ruger for Christmas. He really, REALLY liked it, and he's good help and I can't pay him most of the time. I sort of miss it, but it's his now! I never had a .22 that shot that good!

Yeah... Goldsboro is a bit of a drive. Mrs. HH is working every other weekend though, and you, me and maybe a few others will go out soon and have a reason to clean guns afterwards. :-)

[Squantos]

LMAO !

SP almost walked ya into a skunk ???

You make her mad that evening ?.............;o)

[Knitebane]

Never assume that a “cool” title like SOCOM means diddley.

True enough.

On the other hand, 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta, the Asymmetric Warfare Group and the Capitol Police SWAT team are all confirmed to have traded in their M4s for HK416s.

The German Special Forces and the Italian Special Forces are also using it.

[JDoutrider]

I usually sit these threads out, but this ongoing conflagration about ARs jamming when one just glances at the them is pure horsefeathers. Like you, I've subjected the M16 to mud baths, swimming events, sand traps, the whole nine yards.

Never had a jam until the remfs sent us out this new fangled oil some dude from Caleefornia had thought up and sold somebody in the higher eschalon the idea it was a cure all for all that vietnamese jungle rot that happened to our gear...

Well Hell Yeah! I tried it, and it shore nuff kept that Black beauty a sparklin! Made the rain skeen off like water offa ducks ass, and made the action SNAP like there was no tommorow! Then came 'ol Sir charles acallin on a late night date in thee 'ol Ashua dancin valley!

Well Sombeach! I had no longer fed two 30 mags through my baby tradin volleys with Charley when the Band demanded to be paid! I'm here to tell, there is nothing worse than tryin to dance when you Baby has choked on some brass! in the middle of a moonless night!

NEVER...EVAH...AGAIN will I ever put WD=40 on a Gawdamned thing agin!

Well up to that point fellas, I nevah had a jam with that fine tool! And trust me boys, afgter THAT night, I never had another one!

[Squantos]

Agree......Yeah WD40 sucks for weapons ........great for drying out a distributor cap that gets flooded or removing a bumper sticker and that’s about it shy of a squeeky hinge er three.......

Militech 1 oil and grease is lone PM POL products I personally use shy of a rustpruffe rag carried with other cleaning tools.

There have been sooooooooooo many recipes for panther piss cleaning products that I can not count em. But for field cleaning and maintenance I use the products above. When back in safe areas I will detail clean with ultrasonic cleaners, boiling water baths etc to swab it surgical clean and then reapply the militec 1 per directions.

That stuff worked for me in the wet and dry regions I was deployed to later in my career. Prior to that I kept it as dry as possible using very little teflon based lube after cleaning. Albeit I never had the bad luck to have to go full auto with my rifle through more than a mag or two with a AR series. It was reliable and I would not hesitate to use such a method for PM again if Militec 1 products were not available.

Stay safe !

[Sarajevo]

He pointed out that it's usually the barrel that gets hot and causes problems first... or degraded ammo that causes extraction/feeding problems.

That came out of the mouth of an 18B student at Robin Sage? Will wonders never cease!

He is correct though, heat is a major problem with both the AR and AK, lousy ammo is a close second, and bad magazines come in third.

I can't count the number of time I've singed my fingers on a hot AK forearm, but it is built to loose tolerances and will handle a lot more abuse. It's magazines are well built and will also take a lot of abuse.

As far as the AR15/M16 platforms, I always preferred the M16A1. We fired these at the National Matches at Camp Perry and they were accurate to 500m out of the box. The M16 A2 was accurate, but I hated the 3rd burst. As for the M4- IMO, it's a piece of crap. OK, that was unfair- the M4 with an ACOG was a piece of crap. I took the ACOG off of my issue weapon and used an AimPoint RedDot site with iron sites as a back up. The only advantage I could see in the M4 was a system that wouldn't butt-stroke me in the back of the head while fastroping.

Early on (back in the 70's), we had some troubles with ammunition, mostly quality control. We would find bent rounds, or have rounds that would leave the bullet lodged in the barrel. IIRC, it was Lakewood ammo that was bad.

Magazines were a big problem when it came to jamming in the M-16. If an M16 jammed twice with he same magazine, my squad leader would police up the magazine and make sure that it wouldn't be used again.

All-in-all, the AR15/M16 is a reliable weapons system. Like any piece of equipment, it does require maintenance, but I really see no need to replace it across the board.

.

(Forrest Gumpism)- Ah'm sorry to hear about yor' fishing accident. I hope y'all find them guns you lost real soon.(/Forrest Gumpism)

fmr 18C, 18D, 18F

[Joe Brower]

Wow, look at the hair on that hippy!

Don'tcha just miss the 70s? $;-)

[Travis McGee]

We were on long hair orders prior to going to Berlin.

[Joe Brower]

Late to the party, guys, but let me add my name to the list of folks who've put ARs through their paces without disappointment. Probably the best test I've ever put an AR through (without realizing it at the time) was when I brought my old Colt SP-1 down to the Everglades for three days. I put at least 2,000 rounds through it without anything more than occasionally giving it a shot of LSA (CLP wasn't around then), without a single hiccup.

My friends with their fancy bolt-guns (one had a nice Sako in .220 Swift) were oiling their babies down three times a day just to keep the barrels from rusting in the open air.

[JDoutrider]

Meant to Ping you... Glad you found the thread.

[hiredhand]

Yeah... in retrospect, it was pretty funny! She was actually watching a movie when it all started...quite unaware of what we almost walked into!

#2 son went out first and stopped DEAD in his tracks, and I of course ran right into him and wondered WHY he was sweeping the porch with his AR and muttering to himself, "Oh crap! Oh crap! Oh crap!"... as soon as I smelled the aroma of "skunk TOO CLOSE", I pretty much had the same reaction!

Skunk must have exited his AO when he heard us coming out...something we were both grateful for! :-)

LMAO !

SP almost walked ya into a skunk ???

You make her mad that evening ?.............;o)

[hiredhand]

I read an article once years ago in a Popular Mechanics magazine about using WD-40 on firearms. I seem to remember TWO things about it.

1. It's a poor lubricant for firearms.

2. There was some evidence that it could actually damage the type of steel that firearms are made of.

I'm not qualified enough to speak on the second one. The only time I'll use it on a firearm is if it got wet. WD-40 is fantastic at displacing water (hence the name!... Water Displacement Formula 40), but we don't leave it on firearms. Hoppes #9 "seems" to do a very good job at all things involving cleaning and lubricating, but it just doesn't seem to stay put for very long. It sure does smell good though. :-)

I concur on the Militec-1. #2 son here had a rifle built, and by request it was on the "short side" with respect to headspace so we would NEVER have a excessive headspace problem. Of course, you "might" have to FORCE factory ammo into the thing, but IF you can get the bolt closed, it WILL fire! It's basically a short action Remington 700.

Anyway... we reload for .308 and we wanted to try to set the sizing die in such a way that we didn't have to reset it for his rifle, and the others we load for (on a Dillon RL-550B). We weren't having a lot of success and then you (Squantos) told me about Militech-1 and I picked up a small bottle of it.

We followed the instructions...which is important, because it takes HEAT (150F for "about" an hour if I remember correctly) to activate the stuff. One of the things we treated that day was the bolt from that rifle.

Before treating that bolt with Militech-1, we were trying various headstamps of newly sized brass in that rifle, and every one of them required the palm of the hand to lock up fully. A few of them required the ole maneuver where you sit on top of the rifle and push DOWN hard with your hand. That was with the die set to size within "spec" for the semi-auto that we have.

After treating that bolt with Militech-1, any of those cases from the same batch took one, and sometimes two fingers to close the bolt. The difference was amazing! The ONLY casings we couldn't get into it were the once fired from a semi-auto we have....but that doesn't matter.

So anyway.. yeah... Militech-1 seems to be pretty good stuff.... pricey, but it DOES work.