Posted on 04/18/2010 6:50:11 PM PDT by goodwithagun
Informal poll: SpikeTV is showing a Deadliest Warrior rerun. It has the Taliban vs. IRA. The IRA is testing the AR15 against the Taliban with the AK47. I vote for the AK47. I would like to know what you think.
Well, new is relative. The AR design dates from the middle of the last century. Original ARs and M-16s from the Vietnam era had a permanently attached handle. Mounting optics wasn't a priority.
The NEWER ARs can take a scope. FALs get a replacement dust cover. It's no different than replacing a smooth fore-end with a one with rails.
As hiredhand can attest (at one time we both had FALs) a good dust cover doesn't come off and works wonderfully.
I guess you weren’t around to see tons and tons of scopes mounted on carrying handles in the 1970s, or scopes mounted on home-made flattops which only required cutting off the carrying handle, which is not integral to the receiver but simply a cast on appendage.
The point being, an ARs upper receiver is inherently stiff and ready for very accurate iron or glass sights.
For an AK or a FAL, you have to do some pretty serious aftermarket purchases and work to put on a solid optic. It’s just inherent in the design of the rifles with dust covers.
So superior that when it's failures at Wanat killed American soldiers, the US Army called for a redesign of the M4...with a gas piston.
They shot. Every time. Including on "run-swim-runs" through o-courses and then the ocean, up sand dunes and ending at a 200 yard range in the prone.
This talk about AR-s not shooting is dilletante crap for and by chumps. You are swallowing the marketing hype. "Everybody has to shitcan their gas guns and buy a new piston gun from XYZ Corp for $2,000, or you won't survive a day!"
What utter juvenile crap.
Look, if Army guys on garrison duty can’t keep a rifle clean and functioning, I can’t help them.
Ask the USMC if they’ve had this problem, or the 82nd or SFs or other non-leg troops.
I’ve seen leg Army guys who would tie their two bootlaces together. I guess that means they should redesign boots with zippers for them.
And I'll concur with your opinion of the AR platform. It ain't perfect but if you treat it right it'll go bang every single time.
L
I think I spent about $50 a few years ago for my dust cover and installed it in about 20 minutes. I've broken optics and charging handles but I've never had a problem with the dust cover. (Sadly the TAPCO piece in the second article is no longer available.)
Not having an AK I can't speak to what kind of work it takes to make one of those accept a dust cover, but for the FAL it "just works."
Well, I’d say a 9” group at 500 yards is definitely a man-sized target. It will get the job done; and the heavier bullet of the 7.62x51 will stretch that easily to 600m. Might not win you trophies with a “single ragged hole” out there, but give me a 9” circle and I can pretty much guarantee lead in flesh.
The Remington 700 SPS - the standard non-military (and sometime, even military) sniper rifle - has a 20” barrel and plenty of confirmed hits at distances to 600m or even further.
The dead troops on the ground at Wanat were 2nd Platoon, Chosen Company, 2nd Battalion, 503rd Infantry Regiment (Airborne), 173rd Airborne Brigade Combat Team
Using the M-4: Staff Sergeant Phillips poured out fire, as recalled by another Engineer Specialist loading for him, [SSG Phillips] went through three rifles using them until they jammed.
From the AAR:
Some GWOT and U.S. Army veterans queried by the author have suggested that this could have been caused by improper weapon cleaning. However, numerous Chosen Few NCOs interviewed for this study have been vehemently adamant in stating that weapons were meticulously and regularly cleaned, and rigorously and routinely inspected by the chain of command.
Now I'm a civilian, and we are comparing ARs to AKs on this thread. We don't have 100K per "operator" gear budgets. My point is, our common, ordinary gas gun ARs DO SHOOT and shoot damn well, way out past ranges an AK cannot even hit a car at.
This BS about suddenly discovering that gas guns won't shoot is CRAP by amateurs. And excuse making by a small group of Army guys with dirty guns who got mudsucked at some outpost.
Look, you'll either believe it or you won't. I've gone out of airplanes and submarines with ARs. I've dived with them, swum with them, crawled through mud with them, and then shot them. THEY SHOOT!
Now, suddenly, we're supposed to discover that gas guns don't work, and shitcan them for the XYZ Corps 3,000 dollar piston guy?
What bullshit.
Any you were there?
I’m sure the NCOs, after action, would say, “Aw shucks, you got me. Some of them rifles were damn dirty, on my watch. Just please take these stripes away.”
The NCOs that were there said they had weapons problems.
The Army believed them. The Army is also shitcanning direct impingement. Correlation or causation, I don't know, but it is what it is.
Nice stock! Purty!
As far as ARs, I now have it on good authority that they don’t shoot. We need to go to 3,000 dollar piston guns, or our soldiers will all die.
You weren’t there, neither was I. Where were you? What’s your military background, to be so sure ARs won’t shoot?
When I was in (early 80's USMC) we were shooting Viet Nam era A1's. We kept them clean and they went bang. We were also able to hit man sized targets at 600 with them, off the freaking rack.
The only problem I have with what's being issued is the ammo. That bullet sucks. It should be a soft point.
Not bad if I do say so myself.
Well, there are SOME advantages to being a civilian now. We don’t have free unlimited ball ammo, but we can buy mean and NASTY ammo!!!!
I had a Fed Ord civilian version a few years that I had to sell along with a Garand when cash was short. Been kicking myself since.
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