That's one magic loogie!
Posted on 03/04/2010 9:31:50 AM PST by Erik Latranyi
Surviving a gunfight isn't what you think it is. Don’t let conventional wisdom get you killed. A well place round to "center mass" in your attacker may not take him out of the fight. Lots of people stay in the fight after "center mass" hits, and some even win it. If you expect to win your gunfight, you have to make sure that you have effectively ended the threat of your attacker. One, two or even several well placed "center mass" shots may not do what you think it will, and learning to recognize this before you gunfight may save your life.
There is a self styled self defense “expert” under every rock, and perhaps two behind every bush, these days. If you have a pet theory on what might work on the street then you can probably find a champion for that idea who actually charges people to teach them that skill. But few of the experts out there have ever been in gunfights, and even fewer have studied real gunfights to see how things really work out when the bullets really fly for blood.
There are more misconceptions out there than I can cover in one article but the one that probably gets to me the most, even over all the caliber wars that rage interminably in the print and cyber media, is the nearly universal acceptance that shooting a miscreant “center mass” with ________(fill in your favorite make, model and caliber) shooting _________ (fill in your favorite ammunition) hyper speed truck killer is practically guaranteed to get the job done.
(Excerpt) Read more at forums.gunsamerica.com ...
The philosophy is to not keep doing what has not worked so far. If two shots to center-mass has not done the job, assume he's wearing body armor and go for the head.
Alternately, put a shot into the pelvis, especially if he's coming with an edged weapon, as if you can terminate his mobility, you can back away out of reach.
In any event, the routine is to keep firing until he goes down. Do NOT fire one shot and wait to see what happens next.
for all those friends and pros he spoke of, there are a whoooole bunch of common folk who have successfully stopped their attackers with small calibre old rustbuckets with only one or no shots fired...either before, during or after the fight...
As a Marine instructor once told us, "The first two are to get their attention, and the third one is and exclamation point on your intent." :-)
What's juvenile about understanding that if your facing an opponent who most likely has body armour on, then shooting him in the body armor isn't likely to do much more than sting and piss him off? Sure sure, I realise that a head shot is more difficult to make than a centre mass shot, which is why trainers usually try to steer the average "layman" away from taking it. Obviously. That's why you practice to make the shot. But then again, any idiot can completely miss while trying to make a torso shot too. The key to self-defence, first and foremost, is knowing how to handle yourself and your weapon, not what your particular choice of shot placement might be. You can train somebody all you want to go for the torso, but if they panic in the heat of action, or if they can't handle their gun because they didn't practice, or because it's just too much gun for them, then their centre mass training will have done them jack diddly as far as protecting themselves and their family is concerned. I'd take the headshot because, frankly, my anticipation is that any self-defence situation I'm likely to be in will involve a 10 foot proximity to the perp, maximum. At that range, I could go for a headshot drunk, hopped up on meth, with both eyes closed, and still make the shot. Further, if I'm in my own home when it happens, well, the weapon of choice will probably make the matter moot since it's size won't be measured in "calibre" but in "gauge."
Granted, if I'm in a situation where there is greater distance between myself and the perp, or if, based on that 1/10 of a second you have to assess the situation and make a self-defence choice, I reasonably ascertain that the perp won't be wearing any sort of body armour, then the centre mass is fine, and I'd take it. But my aim in self-defence is, first and foremost, to eliminate the threat ASAP, not showboat about how good I done in 'membering what they learnt me in SD class.
How many gunfights have you survived?
“Anyone training that is ignorant. In most gunfights, there is no time to shoot for the head. If 2 to the center of mass have not stopped the fight, giving the perpetrator time to attack while you are aiming for the head on a moving target is asinine.”
The arrogance in your posts is unbelievable. According to you virtually every firearms training center including Jeff Cooper’s (Gunsite), Front Sight, Chuck Taylor, etc, are ignorant. Please inform us of your qualifications? Why should anyone listen to you? The head may be a difficult target, but if you have already shot the chest twice without effect, you think the 3rd time will do the trick? Is that not a waste of time? In the article people have failed to stop after 10-20 shots to the chest. What strategy do you propose?
I prefer to ricochet off the wall, pierce the left eyeball, zigzag around the body, exit and land right at my feet like a boomerang.
Then I pick up the still-pristine bullet, wipe it down, pop it on the end of a new cartridge, and reload it back into my gun.
Showy, cool, and economical.
I taught him that.
Nevermind the fact that two non-effective centre mass shots have already given the perp more than enough time to attack....
Having observed the way many cops shoot, I'd guess that the vast majority of those 106 shots ended up somewhere else but in the perp.
I find the ones where the victim is unarmed and manages to knock his opponent down and out and the bad guy's gun is just lying there, particularly irritating. Instead of picking it up and either running with it or waiting for the bad guy to come too, the idiot leaves the weapon lying their next to the unconscious perp and goes running off, only to be followed in a little while by the, still, well armed criminal. How stupid can you get?
That's one magic loogie!
Mozambique.
“Only fools go for head shots. In a gunfight, fools die.”
Yeah right. I was just in an SD course 2 weeks ago - they guy has been training people for 25+ years. He says even the cops are now training 2 to the torso then one to the head...are you saying he’s wrong?
Your title seems to indicate that “center mass” hits will not end a gunfight. There are millions of examples, over hundreds of years, that show this to be nonsense.
—along this line, there was a situation in Las Vegas recently where original press reports stated that 3 shots of 81 hit the perp, which was later revised to 18 of 79, IIRC—stuff such is this is part of where I get my byline—
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.