D-Day historian: 'Ryan' not best war film

CNN ^ | 11/11/2009 | Matthew Carey

[Saije]

Some reviewers have called "Saving Private Ryan," Steven Spielberg's World War II film about D-Day and the search for a soldier, one of the greatest war movies.

Military historian Antony Beevor begs to differ.

Not only is it not the greatest war movie, it's not even the best cinematic depiction of D-Day, says Beevor, author of the newly published "D-Day: The Battle for Normandy" (Viking).

He admires the famed Omaha Beach opening -- "Probably the most realistic battle sequence ever filmed," he said -- but described the rest of "Saving Private Ryan" as "ghastly."

"It's sort of a 'Dirty Dozen' cliche of the worst form," he said.***

Beevor says a director would do well to remember that the Allied effort to retake the continent extended well beyond that single day of June 6, 1944.

"D-Day, although an iconic moment, was not actually the end of it. Films like 'The Longest Day' and 'Saving Private Ryan' almost give the impression that D-Day was 'it' and then the next thing people know about was the liberation of Paris," he said. "But in fact it was the fighting in Normandy which was far worse. Casualties on D-Day were far lighter than expected -- [military leaders] had expected 10,000 dead and only 3,000 died.

"The real fighting and the real casualties," he added, "came in the Battle of Normandy."

So what does Beevor prefer in the way of a Hollywood treatment of D-Day? Another project Spielberg had a hand in, "Band of Brothers."

"On the whole I think [it] was pretty close to the truth," Beevor said of the 2001 HBO miniseries, which Spielberg and Tom Hanks executive produced. He called it "incomparably more realistic" than "Saving Private Ryan."

[Since 2009-07-21]

The writer is spot-on. Read William Goldman's takedown of the awful Private Ryan. Technically excellent, but just a terrible story, phony and sappy--from the "Irony!" of the Hanks character's killer, to the wimp-becomes-man (as a combat vet told me, "Doesn't happen."), to the ridiculous idea that because Damon says he's staying, Hanks stays... Dreadful movie.


I agree completely. I give it credit for its technical excellence as you say, but the story line was standard Spielberg. Oddly, the thing I do admire about SPR and Band of Brothers is actually the soundtrack...specifically the SOUNDS of war. As far as I know, unlike any film before. Others might correct me on that one. As war movies go, I loved Band of Brothers.

[Lockbar]

I have “Section 317” (317th Platoon) here at home on video tape. I can’t believe somebody on FR has mentioned it. Hardly anybody has ever seen it. It is most probably one of the best war films ever.

[wbill]

I just had a thought.....no one has mentioned "The Great Escape".

Good movie. Mostly True, sort of. At least you could say that "It's based on Actual Events", which is more than most war movies can claim.

[popdonnelly]

I admire Private Ryan for not flinching from the shock and trauma of the war. However, the film had every war movie cliche’ in it produced since World War II. Idealistic young officer, tough old Sarge, the guy from Brooklyn, the big “dumb” guy (he gets killed off early). The plot is contrived, to say the least. And some of the dialogue seems to come out of Spielberg’s childhood fantasies, generated from watching all those B movies. Unrealistic story, realistic execution.

[Colonel_Flagg]

Band of Brothers is very well done and sets the standard for me. Am also a fan of “Patton” but some historical inaccuracies bug me. However, you certainly can’t argue with George C. Scott.

Another of my favorites, but not surprised to see it omitted so far on this thread, is “Twelve O’Clock High”.

[Condor51]

*** Was there ever a first-class movie about The Battle of the Bulge? ***

Battleground.
Though it only focused on 'the Battle for Bastogne'. But for 1949 pretty darn good.

(the 'Battle of the Bulge' continued long after Patton's 4th Armored Division rolled into Bastogne)

[Colonel_Flagg]

should have simply said ‘surprised’. Oops.

Anyhow, General Frank Savage is a great character and speaks one of my favorite movie lines to persuade a Medal of Honor winner to stay with his fictional 918th Bomb Group:

“I’m choppin’ but no chips are flyin’.”

[Renegade]

Halls of Montezuma is a good 50’s Japan war theater flick. In color too like “Bridges” .

[Renegade]

Ever see “The War Lover” with Steve McQueen ?

[calex59]

The book is nearly always better than movie, and the book can’t capture it all either. There is a country song about a kid who finds a bunch of black and white photos of his grandfather and buddies durring WWII and asks about the experience. His Grandpa says “you should have seen it in color.” My Grandpa was mustard gassed in WWI and came to under a bunch of bodies being hauled back in a cart. Hard to describe, for one thing, the smells associated with war are missing from books and movies, thank goodness, we’d have people throwing up in theaters. Saving Private Ryan was pretty good, Band of Brothers being a smaller scale unit was more realisitc, longer too. On this vetrans day, let’s be glad that those who experinced the real thing, make it possible for us to view war as entertainment.

A friend of mine, long dead now, whom I worked with when I was a young man, fought in WWII. He was "wounded" by being buried under tons of dirt after an 88 round hit near him and 5 others. He was the only one who was rescued. The guys who dug him out told him he was screaming at the top of his lungs and that is they only way they found him. The other 5 all died and it took days to find their bodies. I never could get him to talk about the rest of it.

Neither could I ever get my uncles to talk about their war experiences either(they fought in Europe).

[myself6]

=) lol.. sorry ... should have put some context around the quote.

[calex59]

I just had a thought.....no one has mentioned "The Great Escape".

Good movie. Mostly True, sort of. At least you could say that "It's based on Actual Events", which is more than most war movies can claim.

Yes, and a movie that pi**ed the Brits off, since no Americans were really involved in the "Great Escape". However, our version of the movie with Steve McQueen, James Garner, James Coburn and other great actors at least give a sense to the accomplishment of those prisoners of war that actually did make the escape. I really like that movie.

[calex59]

“Das Boot”, anyone? Amazing movie. Or how about the more recent, “Stalingrad”.

I think Enemy at the Gates is a great movie.

[rbmillerjr]

Saving Private Ryan....beach assault scene, maybe the best 20 minutes of battle ever produced...agreed not the best movie.

[notdownwidems]

“A Soldier’s Story” - Russian film, 1960. I thought it was excellent. Anyone else seen this? Also, “Cross of Iron” with James Coburn and Maxamillian Schell.

[Welcome2thejungle]

Here are some much better WWII films:

The Longest Day
Patton
Battle of the Bulge
Downfall (German)
Stalingrad (German)
Enemy at the Gates
Night of the Generals
The Desert Fox
Is Paris Burning?
A Bridge Too Far
Casablanca
The Caine Mutiny
Bridge at Remagen
Watch on the Rhine
Schindler’s List

Need I go on?

[WhistlingPastTheGraveyard]

“Das Boot”, anyone? Amazing movie.

The Director's Cut is phenomenal.

[driftless2]

"Ryan"

Ditto to your fine summary. Great opening, schlock story line.

[manic4organic]

Now I remember!

[Roccus]

“A Soldier’s Story” - Russian film, 1960. I thought it was excellent. Anyone else seen this?

Thank you. I couldn't think of the name of that film. Saw it in 62 or 63.