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1 posted on 11/01/2009 9:46:34 PM PST by bruinbirdman
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To: wafflehouse; Leisler; PAR35; TigerLikesRooster; AndyJackson; Thane_Banquo; nicksaunt; ...
*Ping!*
2 posted on 11/01/2009 9:47:56 PM PST by rabscuttle385 (http://restoretheconstitution.ning.com/)
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To: bruinbirdman

as i recall the gov was telling us they had put safeguards in place so it would never happen again........hahaha


3 posted on 11/01/2009 9:53:32 PM PST by dalebert
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To: bruinbirdman
But yet, Wall Street recovered back in 1987 for one reason: banks were not allowed to directly trade in equities due to the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act. As such, bank assets literally became a de facto "economic backstop" the held up the US economy as Wall Street worked through that 25% drop fiasco.

This is why everybody--even many on the Left--want the banks to be subject to the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act again, which would effectively shield bank assets from the ups and downs of the stock market. Note that both the 1929 and 2008 stock market crashes had horrifying consequences because when the market crashed, it took bank assets along with them.

5 posted on 11/01/2009 10:02:22 PM PST by RayChuang88 (FairTax: America's economic cure)
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To: bruinbirdman

The one crucial nugget that he, and many managers/bankers/traders made again this time was to be found here:

“There was almost no price at which Fink could unload his positions. First Boston was stuck, and so was he. Fink had received not just his first real education in risk but also a lesson in how Wall Street really worked.”

These clowns in the late 80’s and again in this debacle, forget that there is risk in limited liquidity. When the turds hit the turbine blades, people want to be in cash or something really, really liquid, like short-duration Treasury bills. Something on which you can get a bid day or night, in US markets or offshore markets, so if there is a need to shift one’s positions, you can do it.

This was part of the problem in the late 80’s, and it is a huge problem again now. It was the problem in the auction rate securities markets, it is the problem with CDO’s, it is the problem with various derivative contracts, etc.

What is most strange about this fascination by Wall Street and The City with illiquid instruments is this: the long-term trend of markets is to make trading easier, faster and more of a commodity over the long term. All attempts at creating one-off or specialized instruments almost always are swimming upstream of the long-term flow. I learned this having been in the hay market in ag - there are no futures on hay, on any exchange, in any market. Why? Because hay isn’t a commodity. There’s good hay, bad hay and supreme quality hay - there’s grass hay, grain hay, alfalfa hay, mixes of all of the above, pea hay, soybean hay, peanut hay, you name the legume, at some point someone has tried to cut it for hay.

This results in a cash-only, private-contract market. This is opposed to markets like wheat, corn and soybeans, where there are standards the crop must meat - X% moisture, Y pound per bushel volume, delivered to registered commodity terminals, etc. You can buy and sell contracts and futures on commoditized grains all day long - because these crops have been made into a commodity.

In mortgages, the trend has been to create “conforming” mortgages, which when bundled are easily securitized. Fannie/Freddie have been doing this since the Depression, and until recently, it worked pretty well.

So when the debt markets started creating these idiotic, almost illiquid CDO’s, CDO-squared, etc - they were, in effect, twisting their own rope from hemp grown by dubious lenders and mortgage brokers, tying it into a hangman’s noose and then either sticking their own heads through the noose or selling positions for other fools to stick their heads through a noose. And when the noose started getting a little snug, they decided that the way to solve that problem was to stand on a wobbly chair (ie, lever up).

This is the same thing, repeated over and over again throughout history with investments - and is one of the reasons why debt deflations and the really painful credit collapses often involve real estate (whether commercial, ag or residential) - because when the crap hits the fan in real estate valuations, real estate is, always has been, and likely always will be, very illiquid.


7 posted on 11/01/2009 10:11:13 PM PST by NVDave
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To: Bellflower

self ping


14 posted on 11/02/2009 12:46:48 AM PST by Bellflower (If you are left DO NOT take the mark of the beast and be damned forever.)
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To: bruinbirdman
" Taleb would describe what had happened to Fink in his book The Black Swan:The Impact of the Highly Improbable. In it Taleb explains why some of the most intelligent people on the planet fail to understand and appreciate the randomness of life...

Our elites grow up and do well in INSTATUTIONS. Little hot houses of order, that produce human orchids. Ask Robert Mcnamara about elites, computers and illiterates in black pajamas and regular infantry uniforms. Ask the now dead Russian nobility about Marxist reading mobs, or also now dead German generals against the slob Russian Armies.

15 posted on 11/02/2009 1:23:09 AM PST by Leisler (We donÂ’t need a third party we need a conservative second party.)
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To: bruinbirdman; ex-Texan
Obama's National.....


17 posted on 11/02/2009 5:23:44 AM PST by M. Espinola (Freedom is never "free")
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