double plus ungood...
Posted on 08/05/2009 7:57:45 PM PDT by Chode
This will be a general purpose thread for F1 news and pings that really don't require a thread of their own.
The Race Stewards issued a cash fine, but the WMSC will still review the sanction. Points still are in issue.
At first I didn’t see any reason to take constructor points, but after further consideration, the team made the decision to break the rules, therefore the team should be punished in a way that truly means something. Money’s important, but points are more valuable than gold.
Alonso knew what was going on. Any claim of innocence on his part is pure folly.
double plus ungood...
So the purpose of the rules is to mete out punishment and not to promote the sport? Are you Max Mosely?
I think those are one in the same. The purpose of sanctions is to severely discourage ignoring the sporting regulations. I contend if Ferrari just needs to pay $100,000 to buy Alonzo points so he has a better shot of winning the drivers championship, they’ll do it again.
Team Orders did not end when Schumacher passed Rubens Barrichello in Austria in 2002, and everybody knows that. Massa had a ‘long’ pit stop in Brazil to help Raikkonen take the title in 2007. Kovalainen often helped Hamilton at McLaren.Irvine assisted Schumacher at Ferrari which could well have lost him the title in 1999 after Schumacher broke his leg.
A TEAM operates its two cars in a manner that maximizes its chances of winning the driver’s or constructor’s title. Every team has been lying about that fact since 2002. Ferrari’s only sin here is they did a bad job of it. Alonso was faster and has more points. Without “team orders” you have Vettels crashing into the Webers in the lead. Maybe Alonso should have wrecked Masa.
In the law, you have Court Rules. Rule #2 is that the rules must be applied to acheive justice - you don’t apply them because they exist. This is because all lawyers know that no rule covers every possible situation.
The FIA should take heed. They should apply their rules in the best interest of their sport. Alonso is blameless. The team has the same number of points, notwithstanding the orders. F1 so often has been dominated by one team that it is boring, especially to Americans. Now you have a resurgent Ferrari that looks like it will take on Red Bull in the second half. How does taking Ferrari out of the constructor’s race help the sport? It should be a monetary fine only.
Next question, can a team buy a win for $100,000 because I want to get in line early for that deal............
Well I suppose you need a $400,000,000 per year budget to start with, then maybe you can get that deal.
I was looking forward to seeing Michael return to Ferrari...oh, and I’m available that weekend if they can’t find anyone to drive.
The team puts up the money and the cars and the drivers ... they should be able to race as they please
IMHO
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yup...
absolutely...
me tooo...
I like what you have written with the above exception.
Alonso clearly was complaining over the radio - I heard it myself - about his speed vs Massa’s.
Personally, I feel Alonso has bee truly the root of alot of vile behavior in F1 and he IS to blame for so many atrocious behaviors (the crash while he was at Renault, holding up Hamilton while at McClaren.
Alonso can drive. It's a factual statement.
Would I cut around with him? No F—king way. He's the type of dude that I can't stand. And he's a whiner. He really reminds me of a REALLY liberal, dirty politician here in the US.
“I didn't do anything wrong! Look at him!
Let's have fun watching Hungary!
Vrooooooom!
Yes, the "This is ridiculous" statement, when Fernando knew he was clearly faster. So Alonso drops back to let Masa open a gap. Smedley starts the cheerleading. Then Alonso eats Masa up, while Hamilton is nipping at Alonso's heels. Alonso proves a case that he can pass Masa while technically complying with the Sporting regulations. Better than wrecking Masa, like Seb did to Weber. So Fernando did ALOT more than register 1 word complaint (We will never know whether there was more said). But regardless, Alonso's driving did the politicing. A lesser driver would crash out his teamate.
After he got by, Alonso opened a gap. Hamilton closed down on Masa and almost got in at the end. So would it have been better for the team if Alonso said nothing, stuck under Masa's wing and risked getting crashed out by Hamilton, who still has a chip on his shoulder? Faster car gets by and the second driver holds off the late charges from the field is how it usually goes. Why should this year be different? Alonso is blameless.
Personally, I feel Alonso has bee truly the root of alot of vile behavior in F1 and he IS to blame for so many atrocious behaviors (the crash while he was at Renault, holding up Hamilton while at McClaren.
Yes, Fernando was down in Piquet's foot box holding down the pedal, when the car went into the wall. Fernando also had a sniper in the stands, just in case Flavio wanted to back out ot the deal. C'mon!
Any yes, Fernando crossed the line when he held Hamilton. But I had the sense that management favored a young Brit to win the championship as a rookie on the back of Fernando's skills in developing and setting up the car. He had earnd the No.1 driver's spot, which the team of Brits took from him becuase he was a Spaniard. So I don't blame him. And here is what happens to your Driver Championship, when you put all your chips on a rookie:
Vindication Alonso.
Would I cut around with him? No F—king way.
I have never seen Fernando drive maliciously or even unduly dangerously. He could have stayed on track and been wrecked at Sliverstone when Kubica bombed him. But he gave way. Would Hamilton, Weber or Seb have the wherewithal to have dirven similarly? I don't think so.
And OK, OK. I am an Alonso fan! ;) Now for an update:
FIA Still Considering Ferrari Hearing Date: The FIA is still not ready to set a date for the hearing about the Ferrari team orders affair. It has been reported this week that the team's one-two finish at Hockenheim will be considered during the regular World Motor Sport Council meeting in Como, Italy, on Sept. 10. But that date clashes with Friday free practice at Monza. "The relevant committees are consulting about it (a date for the Ferrari hearing)," a spokesman for the Paris-based federation is quoted in the German press.
http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-formula-one-grand-prix-news-briefs/
While sympathising with fans angry about Ferrari's controversial maneuver in Germany, Ross Brawn insists the ban on team orders is outdated.
"I understand how F1 fans might be disappointed by what they have seen on Sunday," Brawn told Gazzetta dello Sport.
"The rule that bans team orders is not realistic anymore. The teams and the FIA must find together a transparent solution that maintains the integrity of the competition and safeguards the sport."
Brawn is no stranger to team orders, having applied them during his time at Ferrari in Michael Schumacher's heyday and admits that Mercedes GP would implement them under the right circumstances. "Our drivers are asked to avoid clashing against each other," explained Brawn, "and if one has the chance to take the title while the other one doesn't, we want both of them to act in the interest of the team without throwing away that opportunity," he added.
http://www.planet-f1.com/news/18227/6283308/Brawn-team-orders-ban-unrealistic
Almost as bad in the coverage at F1.com:
Schumacher handed 10-place grid penalty for Spa
Mercedes GP’s Michael Schumacher has been punished by the Hungarian Grand Prix stewards for his clash[I didnt see a "clash." I saw Rubens get the inside line with greater speed than the Mercedes] with Williams’ Rubens Barrichello in the closing laps of Sunday's Budapest race. Schumacher receives a 10-place grid penalty for the next round in Belgium.
As Barrichello attempted to overtake the German on Lap 66 on the main straight, the seven-time champion appeared to move over[This doesn't pass the laugh test - Schumacher is guilty of assault with a deadly weapon] on the Brazilian and push him towards the pit wall. [How about pushed the Brazilian off the racing surface and to within inches of a conrete barrier at pit exit.]
After a post-race investigation the stewards decided Schumacher had "illegitimately impeded car 9 during an overtaking manoeuvre”. Mercedes GP have accepted the decision.
The Belgian Grand Prix takes place at Spa-Francorchamps from August 27-29.
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2010/8/11113.html
Reminds me of Autobahn construction sites with a concrete barrier on the left and an 18-wheeler on the right...in a lane not much wider than 2m. Less than a foot to either side. Routine, at 60 mph in a plain old road car.
Hey, it’s F1, not traffic school 101. There was enough space for Rubens to go through, and go through he did. Things always look closer than they are on TV...
(Yeah, I’ll admit that looked pretty close. But I don’t have an F1 superlicense either. Tough call.)
yup, looked rude to me...
That and the crazy pit stop incidents were about the only interesting part of this race. Getting kind of tired of the F1 parades lately.
Up next, my favorite race in all of motor racing. Too bad we have to wait 4 weeks for it.
Watch it again closely. Reubens got the jump and got his left front inside Shumachers right rear. Barichello has more speed and his front moves up the sidepod. Shumacher responds by moving right right down to the line, forcing Rubens completely off the racing surface, onto dusty concrete, inches from the wall. The only way back for Reubens was across pit out, a highly dangerous location, and across infield grass. If a car was comming out of the pits, Michael should have prosecuted criminally.
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