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To: BroJoeK
Now look, rustbucket, South Carolina did not first secede on December 20/24, 1860, because all-of-a-sudden they suffered some drastic increase in the rate of tariffs they had been happily paying for many years.

Why did you bring South Carolina into the conversation? Virginia was the state I was talking about, not South Carolina. South Carolina seceded before the drastic increase in tariffs was passed and signed into law. Virginia, the state I was talking about, seceded after the Morrill Tariff became law.

Tariffs could easily have been solved by normal political processes, if that was South Carolina's major concern.

That is what happened in the 1830s. But in 1861, the new tariff was a major contributor to why Lincoln instigated the war, IMO. The Morrill Tariff was signed into law just before Lincoln was inaugurated and after the Confederacy had passed their own tariff. The Confederate tariff was lower but not too different from the 1857 US tariff in effect before the Morrill Tariff.

Had the two countries been allowed to peacefully separate and at the same time retain such large differences in their tariffs:

- Northern ports would suffer a large loss of business.

- Since Northern goods imported to the South would now be charged the Southern tariff, Northern manufacturers would now have to reduce the price of their goods to maintain their previous market share in the South. This would cut their profits and likely result in job losses. Northern manufacturers no longer had a more or less captive market in the South created by a tariff that protected them from lower price European goods.

- The tariff revenue of the United states would fall.

It is no wonder that Lincoln cried 'what about my revenue?' and decided to blockade Southern ports to deprive them of revenue to run the war.

Did you really just "forget" to quote for us the date of that article, and provide a link to it? Why am I guessing that you have taken their words pretty badly out of context?

Unlike you I have a collection of perhaps thousands of articles from newspapers of that time. I've been collecting them for the last seven or eight years. The date of the article was April 3, 1861. There is no link to it that I'm aware of except my own posts of it in the past.

The article was entitled, "The Northern Tariff." I think it was on the front page of an afternoon edition. The article was a full column and a half long. Go to a library and look up that edition of the newspaper. If they have decent libraries in Pennsylvania, you'll find it.

The first paragraph I posted was the first paragraph of the article. The paper put the meat of the article right up front. The second paragraph I posted was the first three sentences of the fourth paragraph. That fourth paragraph continued with ...

The breach between the sections must be widened. The Northern party, in its endeavor to promote Northern at the expense of Southern interests, made a shocking miscalculation. Instead of injuring the South, the Morrill Tariff spread terror throughout the North, and fearful visions of its ruinous effects now haunt those who but a few months ago insanely rejoiced in the promise of peaxce, plenty, and unbounded prosperity.

The article continued by quoting Northern denunciations of the Morrill tariff. Here is a link to one of my posts from 2002 that contained a couple of quotes from that article by Northern papers. Link

I would post the image of the entire article as it appeared in the paper, but I respect the rights of the people who prepared the microfilm of the newspaper. The words of the article are no longer under copyright, but I believe the image is the property of the microfilm preparer. At one library I had to prepare a signed list of the pages I copied from an original copy of a newspaper. Their conditions allowing me to photograph the paper prohibited me from publishing the images. I honor those restrictions.

2,192 posted on 08/27/2009 11:51:02 PM PDT by rustbucket
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To: rustbucket
from 2,192 rustbucket: "Why did you bring South Carolina into the conversation? Virginia was the state I was talking about, not South Carolina. South Carolina seceded before the drastic increase in tariffs was passed and signed into law. Virginia, the state I was talking about, seceded after the Morrill Tariff became law."

Because, without South Carolina's FIRST secession, followed by all other states of the Lower South, there would have been no secession debate in Virginia. Indeed, the Morrill Tariff could not have passed without the departure of many Southern members of Congress.

Note in this article that some historians claim the Morrill Tariff was important in the South's secession, while others say it was not. What's certain is tariffs were not mentioned by South Carolina in their Causes for Secession Statement.

It's also certain that Virginia REJECTED an ordnance for secession on APRIL 4, AFTER the Morrill Tariff was passed, but before President Davis fired on Fort Sumter. But just a few days AFTER Sumter, Virginia changed it's mind and voted FOR secession.

So I think we can reasonably conclude the Tariff had nothing to do with it.

rustbucket: "That is what happened in the 1830s. But in 1861, the new tariff was a major contributor to why Lincoln instigated the war, IMO. The Morrill Tariff was signed into law just before Lincoln was inaugurated and after the Confederacy had passed their own tariff. The Confederate tariff was lower but not too different from the 1857 US tariff in effect before the Morrill Tariff."

Sorry, pal, but that's about as crazy as anything I've heard. Lincoln did not "instigate the war." He sent ships to resupply Fort Sumter, just as Buchanan had in January. Davis "instigated the war" by firing on Sumter. And holding onto Fort Sumter had nothing to do with tariffs -- any more than holding the other forts did -- Jefferson, Taylor and Pickens.

And your suggestion that somehow the North "needed" Southern tariffs is belied by the fact that the North soon raised tariffs high enough to pay for the war, without any revenue from the South.

more on the Morrill Tarrif:

rustbucket: "The date of the article was April 3, 1861"

"That fourth paragraph continued with ...

"The breach between the sections must be widened. The Northern party, in its endeavor to promote Northern at the expense of Southern interests, made a shocking miscalculation. Instead of injuring the South, the Morrill Tariff spread terror throughout the North, and fearful visions of its ruinous effects now haunt those who but a few months ago insanely rejoiced in the promise of peace, plenty, and unbounded prosperity."

Here's the simpler truth of the matter:

So Davis needed something -- anything -- to rekindle interest in his new Confederacy. He tried using the Morrill Tariff to change minds, but it didn't work. What finally did work was firing on Fort Sumter, and Lincoln's subsequent declaration of Insurrection.

That got everyone's attention, and convinced the Upper South to join the Confederacy. Smart move on Davis' part.

Here are some key facts to remember about the Morrill Tariff:

"The immediate effect of the Morrill Tariff was to more than double the tax collected on most dutiable items entering the United States. In 1860 American tariff rates were among the lowest in the world and also at historical lows by 19th century standards, the average rate for 1857 through 1860 being around 17% overall (ad valorem), or 21% on dutiable items only.

"The Morrill Tariff immediately raised these averages to about 26% overall or 36% on dutiable items, and further increases by 1865 left the comparable rates at 38% and 48%.

"Although higher than in the immediate antebellum period, these rates were significantly lower than between 1825 and 1830, when rates had sometimes been over 50%."

High tariffs did not cause secession in 1830 and were not the cause in 1860 or 1861. Protecting slavery was the cause, pure and simple.

2,199 posted on 08/28/2009 1:27:04 PM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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