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To: rustbucket
from 2,184 rustbucket: "Here are Beauregard's orders dated March 1, 1861. He arrived in Charleston on March 3. Davis must have had a large megaphone to reach him on the 3rd.. "

There was no Internet or email in 1861, of course, but they did have telegraph, and even snail-mail could travel by rail in a just few days. ;-)

I don't know what document Fredriksen is referring to here, however, the eventual necessity of war was laid down in January, when South Carolina demanded Fort Sumter's surrender, declared any resupply tantamount to war, and President Buchanan told South Carolina's envoys Sumter would not be surrendered. So absent some negotiated deal then, war was simply a matter of when the Union decided it must resupply Major Anderson.

We can fully expect Beauregard was instructed to prepare for the inevitable.

rustbucket: "Defense of the harbor would have certainly involved defending against bombardment from Fort Sumter."

Now that is nonsense, and you know it. Fort Sumter was not attacking anyone, or demanding anyone's surrender. Only the South was demanding Sumter's surrender, and declaring attempts to resupply it tantamount to war.

quoting: "This is the first treason trial since the memorable Aaron Burr case.

rustbucket: "Gamble was acquitted."

As was Aaron Burr 60 years earlier. And Burr's trial for treason was also based on attempted secession, the charges brought by none other than President Jefferson. I'd say this tells us exactly what Jefferson REALLY believed about secession.

rustbucket: "Some have argued Bledsoe's book helped the Supreme Court realize that they couldn't prove that Davis was a traitor."

Here is the US Constitution's definition of treason:

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

So, was Davis guilty of treason? Seems pretty clear he "levied War against" the United States, doesn't it?

2,188 posted on 08/27/2009 5:01:59 PM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK
I don't know what document Fredriksen is referring to here, however, the eventual necessity of war was laid down in January, when South Carolina demanded Fort Sumter's surrender, declared any resupply tantamount to war, and President Buchanan told South Carolina's envoys Sumter would not be surrendered. So absent some negotiated deal then, war was simply a matter of when the Union decided it must resupply Major Anderson.

Fredriksen was your erroneous source for the Harriet Lane landing troops for Fort Pickens on April 8th wasn't it?

Governor Pickens offered to provide provisions for Fort Sumter back in January as I remember. Anderson refused to accept them.

[rustbucket]: Defense of the harbor would have certainly involved defending against bombardment from Fort Sumter.

[BroJoeK]: Now that is nonsense, and you know it. Fort Sumter was not attacking anyone, or demanding anyone's surrender. Only the South was demanding Sumter's surrender, and declaring attempts to resupply it tantamount to war.

Anderson threatened to fire on ships in the harbor from Fort Sumter. Seems to me defense of the harbor might require shooting at the pirates occupying Fort Sumter.

[rustbucket]: Gamble was acquitted.

[BroJoeK]: As was Aaron Burr 60 years earlier. And Burr's trial for treason was also based on attempted secession, the charges brought by none other than President Jefferson. I'd say this tells us exactly what Jefferson REALLY believed about secession.

As I remember, Burr told some people he was going to invade Washington although his main focus appeared to be carving off a western chunk of the US and/or perhaps taking Texas from Mexico. He was not the people of a state formally (and legally) seceding.

So, was Davis guilty of treason? Seems pretty clear he "levied War against" the United States, doesn't it?

Davis was no longer a citizen of the United States and was thus not guilty of treason.

2,191 posted on 08/27/2009 11:03:46 PM PDT by rustbucket
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